'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

[Martin Marprelate]

A few quotations from ancient Baptists.
First John Bunyan.
'Coming to Christ is attended with an honest and sincere forsaking all for him [here he quotes Luke 14:26-7] By these and likewise expressions elsewhere, Christ describeth the true comer: he is one that casteth all behind his back. There area great many pretended comers to Jesus Christ in the world. They are much like the man you read of in Matt. 21:30, that said to his father's bidding, "I go, sir," and went not. When Christ calls by His gospel, they say, "I come, Sir," but they still abide by their pleasure and carnal delights. [from 'Come & Welcome to Jesus Christ']

'What are thy desires? Wouldest thou be saved? Wouldest thou be saved with a thorough salvation? Wouldest thou be saved from guilt and filth too? Wouldest thou be the servant of the Saviour? Art thou indeed weary of the service of thy old masters, the devil, sin and the world? And have these desires put thy soul to flight? Dost thou fly to Him that is a Saviour from the wrath to come, for life? If these be your desires, and if they be unfeigned, fear not.' [from 'The Jerusalem Sinner saved]

Next, C.H. Spurgeon.
'Coming to Christ embraces in it repentance, self=abnegation, and faith in the Lord Jesus, and so sums within itself all those things that are the necessary attendants of those great steps of the heart, such as belief of the truth, earnest prayers to God, the submission of the soul to the precepts of the Gospel.' [sermon on John 6:44]

'To come to Christ signifies to turn from sin and to trust in Him. Coming to Christ is a leaving of all false confidences, a renouncing of all love to sin and a looking to Jesus as the solitary pillar of our confidence and hope. [sermon on John 6:37]

'Many people think that when we preach on salvation, we mean salvation from going to hell. We do mean that, but we mean a great deal more: we preach salvation rom sin; we say that Christ is able to save a man; and we mean by that that He is able to save him from sin and make him holy, to make him a new man. No person has the right to say, "I am saved," while he continues in sin as he did before. How can you be saved from sin while you are living in it? A man who is drowning cannot say he is saved from the water while he is still sinking in it; a man who is frost-bitten cannot say with any truth that he is saved from the cold while he is stiffened in the wintry blast. No, man, Christ did not come to save you in your sins, but to save you from your sins; not to make the disease so that it should not kill you, but to let it remain in itself mortal, and nevertheless to remove it from you, and you from it. Christ Jesus came then to heal us from the plague of sin, to touch us with His hand and say, "I will, be thou clean.' [sermon on Matt. 9:12]

Not quite a Baptist, but here's John Owen on John 3:19.
'The light of the Gospel is brought into a place or people; they come so near it as to discover its end or tendency; but as soon as they find out that it aims to part them from their sins, they will have no more to do with it. They like not the terms of the Gospel, and so perish in and for their iniquities.

 

[Internet Theologian]

MM, today's gospel promises men heaven, and promises them a trip from point A to point B, the end point being escape from hell and a heavenly home. Then they wonder why there is no desire or holiness on the part of the one completely guaranteed that later in life they are going to heaven no matter what. It's because in their truncated gospel there is a gap in between the 'points' and there is no evidence necessary.

Those poor misinformed apostles, spending so much undue time writing to the sheep on their conduct on this earth in the mean time, and of its grave importance as evidence of true conversion. So many today would have straightened these men out on all of that, and would ridicule them on this forum as they do to many of us.

 

[DHK]

MM, today's gospel promises men heaven, and promises them a trip from point A to point B, the end point being escape from hell and a heavenly home. Then they wonder why there is no desire or holiness on the part of the one completely guaranteed that later in life they are going to heaven no matter what. It's because in their truncated gospel there is a gap in between the 'points' and there is no evidence necessary.

I don't know what modern gospel you believe. Perhaps you might tell us. Is it the gospel of works that Icon has been hammering away at wherein a person must repent of all his sins before he can be saved?? That is certainly an anti-biblical gospel, one which Paul said is "accursed."
The gospel which I believe and preach can be found in 1Cor.15:1-4. I will simply refer you to the reference assuming you have the capability to look it up, saving the space to quote the entire passage.
The Bible has other things to say about the gospel and its message and those that preach it.

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
--It tells us, we that preach the Word, are simply strangers and pilgrims on this earth. This world is not our home.

Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
--It tells us here that our citizenship is in heaven.
I agree we are on a journey, going from point A to B. This world is not my home (may be yours), but my home is in heaven. And that is my destination. Christ has saved me from my sins as he has promised:

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.
--It is a verse well worth reflecting on, especially at this season.
If he hasn't saved you from your sins, then what has he saved you from?

Of course your sins have a penalty; all sin does.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In his death he paid that wage. He paid the penalty for my sin, and through faith I accepted his gift of eternal life.

Those poor misinformed apostles, spending so much undue time writing to the sheep on their conduct on this earth in the mean time, and of its grave importance as evidence of true conversion. So many today would have straightened these men out on all of that, and would ridicule them on this forum as they do to many of us.

Here is a gem of truth for you to cogitate on.
Those poor misinformed apostles condemned limited atonement that you preach as heresy.

I'll quote this in the ASV avoiding the more harsh language of "damnable heresies" that the KJV uses.

2 Peter 2:1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
What destructive heresy did these false teachers bring in?
They denied that the Master (Lord) purchased them, that is that the Lord purchased them--the unsaved false teachers--with his own blood. They were unsaved false teachers--the non-elect. They were teaching a limited atonement. For they denied that Christ died for them. This was a destructive heresy.
Peter condemns it.

 

[JonShaff]

MM, today's gospel promises men heaven, and promises them a trip from point A to point B, the end point being escape from hell and a heavenly home. Then they wonder why there is no desire or holiness on the part of the one completely guaranteed that later in life they are going to heaven no matter what. It's because in their truncated gospel there is a gap in between the 'points' and there is no evidence necessary.

Those poor misinformed apostles, spending so much undue time writing to the sheep on their conduct on this earth in the mean time, and of its grave importance as evidence of true conversion. So many today would have straightened these men out on all of that, and would ridicule them on this forum as they do to many of us.

I'll speak from experience. I associate with several Arminian free will baptist churches. They believe in preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repentance of sin. They expect a true new convert to turn from sin and have godly sorrow and deep remorse because of sin. They also believe you must endure to the end to be saved.

Based on what I said, do you agree with them?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I don't know what modern gospel you believe. Perhaps you might tell us. Is it the gospel of works that Icon has been hammering away at wherein a person must repent of all his sins before he can be saved?? That is certainly an anti-biblical gospel, one which Paul said is "accursed."
.

Brother DHK,

Brother Icon said he believes one repents because they are born again, not to get born again, thus you are misrepresenting his teachings on this board! The point of "total depravity" that Brother Icon, others, and myself on this board believe to be the truth makes it impossible for one who is not born again to repent to become born again.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I'll speak from experience. I associate with several Arminian free will baptist churches. They believe in preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repentance of sin. They expect a true new convert to turn from sin and have godly sorrow and deep remorse because of sin. They also believe you must endure to the end to be saved.

Based on what I said, do you agree with them?

Brother Jon,

A true convert will do all of the above.

 

[JonShaff]

Brother Jon,

A true convert will do all of the above.

So Arminian and d.o.g. can agree

 

[BrotherJoseph]

So Arminian and d.o.g. can agree

On some things brother!

 

[JonShaff]

On some things brother!

I find myself in the middle....I believe the entire supernatural work of Salvation belongs to God, I believe we are Kept by God's grace and we are continually being refined by His grace. We were given works to walk in before the creation of the world and I believe we are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. I believe fruits of Regeneration are holy adoration and allegiance to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe that BECAUSE the Holy Spirit is deposited in us, we now have a new Nature within us that abhors sin. Repentance of Sin is different from repentance of unbelief/rejection of Jesus Messiah. We repent of sin because we now have a nature within us that can cause us to repent. God's grace extends to the lost, it rains on the unjust and just alike. And because of God's permissive will, He has given man the opportunity to Believe the Gospel and the Finished work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

So we repent at regeneration and then continue to repent throughout our Christian walk. Sorta like on ongoing "good work" that we do so we can persevere to the end and complete the "P" in TULIP.

I got news for you, if you continually keep repenting of the same sin(s), you never truly repented to begin with.

You are correct in that would be a practice or habitual sin....that would be the conduct of a deluded false professor.

I would like to answer your 3 objections when I get to my laptop....but if you look at the links I offered not one of them presents the teaching as you suggest.
Take your 3 objections and look at the links and see if you discover how they are answered.
I am not asking at this point for you to agree.....just to notice the difference

 

[DHK]

Brother DHK,

Brother Icon said he believes one repents because they are born again, not to get born again, thus you are misrepresenting his teachings on this board!

A matter of semantics. Let's use the phrase "in order to be saved," instead of "born again," or "regenerated." Now his beliefs are not misrepresented. Repentance, in his opinion, must precede salvation. You are just muddying the waters by inserting the topic of ordo salutis. I believe that regeneration and salvation (if there is a difference) take place simultaneously. Icon doesn't necessarily think so, as can be demonstrated through the story of Cornelius.
I do not believe I have misrepresented his beliefs at all.

The point of "total depravity" that Brother Icon, others, and myself on this board believe to be the truth makes it impossible for one who is not born again to repent to become born again.

This is error on your part. You don't believe in the depravity of man; you believe in the Total Inability of Man--a totally unbiblical concept. Again, God commands man to: repent, believe, draw nigh, turn, etc. You mock God telling God in effect that that he is a deceiver telling man to do things he possibly cannot do. It is a terrible concept of God.

 

[agedman]

There is no doubt that the "pray this prayer after me" easy believing types may lead to some false assumptions.

However, one must be very guarded in blanket condemnation, for then one might attribute something unholy to that of the holy.

By way of explanation:

No person, evangelist, preacher, teacher, missionary,... saves a person. Rather, the Scriptures are used by the Holy Spirit to bring conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment. So, even in the "easy believe-ism" there may be those who truly are saved, God knows, humankind are not to judge.

Personally, I don't conduct my witnessing in such a manner, and if I am in contact with one who does, I don't feel the overwhelming urge to correct them. Rather, through example, and teaching, I attempt to bring understanding to enlarge that person's comfort zone from following a certain "formula" associated more with salesmanship, than work of the Holy Spirit (my opinion only).

What I do argue against is the idea that one is lifted into some neutral ethereal state in which they may express some freedom of choice and freedom of will to "accept" or "reject" the savior. That repentance is the results in belief rather than the results of belief. That repentance is not the catalyst to belief but the natural cry emanating from the New Creation, the new will, the newness of life.

 

[agedman]

You are correct in that would be a practice or habitual sin....that would be the conduct of a deluded false professor.

I think that the Scriptures present that each believer may have what I would term a "besetting sin." A sin which if not continually "put to death" then will emerge in some manner in the living. Be it the lust of the flesh, eyes, or from pride.

Such is not evidence of a "false professor."

What IS evidence of a "false professor" is one who continues without rebuke of God in sin(s) and has no evidence of growth in the fruits of the Holy Spirit other than what is self imposed.

They are as the religious righteous, who are full of dead men's bones.

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother DHK,

Brother Icon said he believes one repents because they are born again, not to get born again, thus you are misrepresenting his teachings on this board! The point of "total depravity" that Brother Icon, others, and myself on this board believe to be the truth makes it impossible for one who is not born again to repent to become born again.

Thank you for posting the truth of what is taking place here
You have read what I posted. You now see clearly the lies of Dhk.....
People do not like these arguing kind of posts but this lying that you see needs to Stop.
You will never see any any cal suggest a works gospel.
You will see lie after lie by DHK as you see right here.

I can post 50 times in a row that works do not save and his very next post will suggest I believe that.

 

[DHK]

Thank you for posting the truth of what is taking place here
You have read what I posted. You now see clearly the lies of Dhk.....
People do not like these arguing kind of posts but this lying that you see needs to Stop.
You will never see any any cal suggest a works gospel.
You will see lie after lie by DHK as you see right here.

I can post 50 times in a row that works do not save and his very next post will suggest I believe that.

Simple questions:
1. What is repentance?
2.. Must a person repent of all his sins before he is saved?

Please don't quote catechisms, etc. to me. Answer in your own words.

 

[Iconoclast]

Simple questions:
1. What is repentance?
2.. Must a person repent of all his sins before he is saved?

Please don't quote catechisms, etc. to me. Answer in your own words.

Post in my own words......ok......works do not save. I have never at anytime posted that works save.
For you to post that I did....is a lie....
For you to post that I did makes you bear false witness.

Good works are ordained for a Christian to walk in them.

The word means a change of mind when isolated by itself.
Biblically it is a change of mind toward God, toward sin, toward life itself, a.persons whole worldview and motives change.
He goes from serving self to serving God and others.
God in giving the new heart and putting His law in the persons new heart also works in the person as he works out his salvation with fear and trembling.
The person now sorrows over remaining sin and mortified it day by day. He repents of any and all manifestations of acts of sin in the life.

 

[DHK]

Post in my own words......ok......works do not save. I have never at anytime posted that works save.
For you to post that I did....is a lie....
For you to post that I did makes you bear false witness.

Good works are ordained for a Christian to walk in them.

I asked you two simple questions. You couldn't answer them. Do you want to try again?

Simple questions:
1. What is repentance?
2.. Must a person repent of all his sins before he is saved?

Please don't quote catechisms, etc. to me. Answer in your own words.

 

[Iconoclast]

I asked you two simple questions. You couldn't answer them. Do you want to try again?

Simple questions:
1. What is repentance?
2.. Must a person repent of all his sins before he is saved?

Please don't quote catechisms, etc. to me. Answer in your own words.

I had an incoming phone call so I had to edit the second part of my answer when I finished the call.

 

[Iconoclast]

A matter of semantics. Let's use the phrase "in order to be saved," instead of "born again," or "regenerated." Now his beliefs are not misrepresented. Repentance, in his opinion, must precede salvation.
YOU DID MISREPRESENT ME....YOU DO 98%OF THE TIME.



(You are just muddying the waters by inserting the topic of ordo salutis. I believe that regeneration and salvation (if there is a difference) take place simultaneously. Icon doesn't necessarily think so, )
THAT IS A LIE.....DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SPEAK FOR ME. YOU CANNOT BE TRUSTED.....OFFER A DIRECT QUOTE.

(I do not believe I have misrepresented his beliefs at all.)

BUT YOU HAVE AND IT SEEMS QUITE DELIBERATELY.

 

[DHK]

Icon here is what you posted:
A matter of semantics. Let's use the phrase "in order to be saved," instead of "born again," or "regenerated." Now his beliefs are not misrepresented. Repentance, in his opinion, must precede salvation.
YOU DID MISREPRESENT ME....YOU DO 98%OF THE TIME.

(You are just muddying the waters by inserting the topic of ordo salutis. I believe that regeneration and salvation (if there is a difference) take place simultaneously. Icon doesn't necessarily think so, )
THAT IS A LIE.....DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SPEAK FOR ME. YOU CANNOT BE TRUSTED.....OFFER A DIRECT QUOTE.

(I do not believe I have misrepresented his beliefs at all.)

BUT YOU HAVE AND IT SEEMS QUITE DELIBERATELY.[/quote]
Now that was an answer to Bro. Joseph and had nothing to do with you directly. You didn't need to answer. If you want to speak directly for yourself and to me, then don''t quote Bro. Joseph. Quote me, or tell me your own beliefs in your own words. Otherwise it is too confusing to keep things straight.