'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

[MB]

Founded accusations. I was aware you are also a Finneyist by your former post
.

I've never read finney. I do not hold to what men claim but if He claims the same as I do more power to him.He can't as ignorant as Calvinism.

Not so, that contempt is all on you. What does 1 John say about having contempt for a brother?

I didn't notice you calling me a brother. If DHK or I is worthy of such an Honor why would you speak so hatefully to a brother as you do making false accusations like you just did DHK whom I happen to have a lot of respect for. You no have no proof I follow any one but Christ. You're one of those guys who can read the minds of others obviously. One thing for sure you seem to be in love with Augustine the author of the Catholic faith. Widely Known to be a false doctrine. Why should I be surprised Calvinist are just plain old warmed over Catholics. You can call me Born again Christian. One who will not take your demeaning statements. I'll send them right back at you. Now if you are willing to discuss doctrine I'm more than willing to do this in a respectful manner

Actually it is about the topic we're discussing in Matthew 19, something you haven't addressed.

What specifically did you wish to discuss?. Divorce, Little Children, the richman not being willing to obey Christ in order to be perfect. Of course you'll most likely say it about something else

Secondly, no, it is about the persons position, things he believes and says. Are those things him?

Really then why insult him with false accusations. You don't know any thing about him except for a few words. For instance I can't write a post that long on what I believe it would take at least a 500 page book if then, but you read a few words and start throwing accusations with out knowing all there is to know. Like your doctrine you take the words of men with out bible study and claim it as truth.

Agreed!

But how wrong they are? It's one person, DHK.

I thought you said it was about the person (DHK) and not what the person is wrong about (subject matter)? You're all over the place here and now you're saying it is about the subject.

But isn't that what you're doing here, going against my person, accusing, all about me, or is it you don't know how to discuss the actual passage of contention so you focus on a person and attack the person instead? All this is so apparent and you call me blind?

Care to address the passage, my beliefs on it, and not how you feel about me?



There you go again, showing us how to address the topic and not the person.

Maybe you should listen more than you flap your jaw. In my opinion you maybe pleasantly surprised by what you can learn here on this board. You must be willing to consider what others say and not the person them selves.
MB

 

[BrotherJoseph]

People are saved because they believe and they accept God's free gift. Salvation is free gift that has to be accepted in order for it to work. In order to accept one has to be willing to receive it.
MB

Brother MB,

Hello. Can you give me a scripture that shows God's free gift of salvation can be rejected by those He is trying to give it to? My Bible says "29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29), but aren't you saying God repents (changes his mind) regarding giving the gift of salvation dependent upon the will of the sinner, or does he still desire to give this gift to him after he has rejected it, died, and gone to eternal damnation so as not to "repent" regarding giving the gift of salvation?

Also, an offer can be rejected by the recipient, but salvation is said to be a gift, and the scriptural definition of a gift given by God cannot be declined by the recipient (i.e. it is effectual) to still be considered a gift, this is what Proverbs 17:8 means by saying, "8 A gift is as a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it: whithersoever it turneth, it prospereth"

Finally, the scriptural definition of a gift is effectual and always received by the recipient that is why Proverbs 18:16 says, "16 A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men."
What you make salvation into is an offer by God, not a gift. An offer can be rejected by the recipient and bring God down to the level of a man, which at most, He is reduced to be doing mere bargaining and may leave a man but with what he had if man rejects it.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

[MB]

...lol, like Paul was given a choice....

Yes he was redneck. Prove He wasn't. LOL! I If you can't see, I don't know what else I can do

 

[Internet Theologian]

I've never read finney. I do not hold to what men claim but if He claims the same as I do more power to him.He can't as ignorant as Calvinism.

You've never read Finney, so you don't know what he taught, but know I am wrong about what he taught. LOL!

I didn't notice you calling me a brother.

Then you didn't miss anything.

If DHK or I is worthy of such an Honor why would you speak so hatefully to a brother as you do making false accusations like you just did DHK whom I happen to have a lot of respect for. You no have no proof I follow any one but Christ.

Wait...what?

You're one of those guys who can read the minds of others obviously.

You say that then you think you've read mine lolzzzzzzzzzzzz:

One thing for sure you seem to be in love with Augustine the author of the Catholic faith. Widely Known to be a false doctrine. Why should I be surprised Calvinist are just plain old warmed over Catholics.

Keep telling yourself that.

You can call me Born again Christian. One who will not take your demeaning statements.

Which demeaning statements? Quote them.

I'll send them right back at you.

Too late you've already been doing this!

Now if you are willing to discuss doctrine I'm more than willing to do this in a respectful manner

Well, golly, I am glad you are now done calling names and are ready to talk doctrine!

What specifically did you wish to discuss?. Divorce, Little Children, the richman not being willing to obey Christ in order to be perfect. Of course you'll most likely say it about something else

See, you don't even know what topic in Matthew 19 we were discussing, instead you just came in with your mouth flapping in ignorance.

Really then why insult him with false accusations.

That never happened. Why lie? Go quote these and prove their falsehood.

You don't know any thing about him except for a few words.

Agreed and how much those few have spoken!

For instance I can't write a post that long on what I believe it would take at least a 500 page book if then, but you read a few words and start throwing accusations with out knowing all there is to know. Like your doctrine you take the words of men with out bible study and claim it as truth.

No need to blather on that long, your condensed version has shown enough error.

Maybe you should listen more than you flap your jaw. In my opinion you maybe pleasantly surprised by what you can learn here on this board. You must be willing to consider what others say and not the person them selves.MB

Believe me I've listened and there is nothing to be learned from false teaching, his, nor yours. Practice the latter yourself, by your own admission you don't even know the topic we were discussing yet determined one is wrong the other is right about it.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes he was redneck. Prove He wasn't. LOL! I If you can't see, I don't know what else I can do

I don't see Paul given a choice in the matter here:

1 But Saul, yet breathing threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 and asked of him letters to Damascus unto the synagogues, that if he found any that were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, it came to pass that he drew nigh unto Damascus: and suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven:
4 and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
6 but rise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. Acts 9

I don't see Paul given a choice in the matter here:

15 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: Gal 1

 

[agedman]

Folks, remember that guests read what is written on the threads.

Please be gentle, tenderhearted, and use words that express loving kindness to each other.

One cannot be a member of the BB without being a brother or sister and although the fleshly families squabble, and the apostles argued about seating arrangements, it is unlikely that the Lord Jesus Christ is pleased with some temperamental exchanges seen. I know He never was when I was exercised in such discussions!

Do not bring rebuke of the Lord upon yourselves by exchange of words that are not fitting of the Holy Spirit.

Believers are to be at peace (as much as is in them) with all men; surely, that includes folks that a believer may have disagreement over some doctrinal statements.

Perhaps is would be wise, before one hits the "Post Reply" button, that reflection is made upon the words chosen and see how to enhance the edification of the reader(s).

 

[DHK]

You have no idea what Finney taught, but just look at your teaching because it is exactly what he did teach. Go and find his teachings and post them here, post about his believing people saved themselves by 'an act of the will'. He believed and propagated that too. Isn't that what you're teaching all along? You said it, so of course it is.

You may be ignorant of him, (in fact you are) but you've picked up his theology big time.

Finney was the President of Oberlin College and taught what came to be known as "Oberlin Theology."
He believed in entire sanctification and denied the depravity of man. He believed that theoretically it should be possible to build a community of believers on this earth entirely free from sin. To this end he tried to do so, but his experiment failed. But you probably know none of those things because you don't know very much about Finney, his history, and his doctrines. It is doubtful that you even know what "Oberlin Theology" is.
Thus your argument is based on false accusations, innuendo, false premises, etc.
You don't know what Finney believed and it is apparent you don't know what I believe.
You are simply embarrassing yourself.

No, it demonstrates that you're ignorant of his teachings, yet teach the same things, while holding contempt for him.

I had said:
The very fact that you link my teaching with him demonstrates that you don't know what I believe.
--Now I have demonstrated who is the one ignorant of the teachings of Finney or you wouldn't have associate neither me nor MB with his teachings. In fact there is no one on this board that you would be able to honestly associate with his teachings. Those individuals would only post in the Other Christians Denominations Forum, as they would not be Baptists. Your accusations are entirely false. You simply continue to slander and malign others. Pitiful. Perhaps I should ask another moderator to look into your behavior.

How do you come up with some of the most absurd statements and trains of thoughts ever heard? What is this nonsense 'You (I) don't know what you believe'? Seriously? What you believe is all over this board you tell us your beliefs daily. DHK, I've nailed you and your system. It is most definitely Finneyism and his act of the will error.

Perhaps you should educate yourself. Do a simple search on "heresies of Finney" and see what you find. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You obviously don't have a clue what I believe. You simply associate me with someone who holds heretical views that are very contrary to mine. That leaves you clueless.Right?

Then, after this, you have a serious issue with salvation being possible with men. You completely misunderstand Matthew 19 and/or misapply it. You botch the entire meaning of 'impossible' by conflating it with 'difficult'. Do you really think Jesus meant it is hard for a rich person to enter heaven, (be saved) but that he can do it, it's just difficult?

Are you still harping on that, even after I gave you a careful exposition of the passage from Mark 10?
If you can 't follow the exposition from Mark 10, perhaps you should go back to school and retake English comprehension, or at least tell me what you don't understand in my explanation. But don't falsely accuse me all over again.

I carefully explained that passage for you here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-16#post-2194798
--Reread it if you have to, but don't go on falsely accusing me.

Then you claimed Jesus never said salvation is impossible with men. I showed you where it was in Scripture.

Show where I said that here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-16#post-2194798
--Stop with the false accusations.

Anyhow, here is what you are doing, with questions:

You’re making the subject of the text 'saving ones self' in Matthew 19 or at least using it to prove a person can do it but that it is difficult. I know you're sitting there saying that you're not.

And on and on you go.
Prove that from this post, which seemingly you haven't read yet:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-16#post-2194798

When you say concerning salvation 'It isn't impossible, but it is difficult' it is exactly what you are doing. Then you focus on the word 'difficult' and go off on mans ability to save himself yet again, speaking of how hard it is to do and 'Jesus said so' arguments. You know what the passage says, not what it means and you are making it about man saving himself, saying how hard it is.

Three times Jesus said it is difficult, and then Jesus said it is not impossible for all things are possible with God. But you refuse to look and see what I actually said. Either that or you need to go back to school and retake English comprehension if you ever had it in the first place.

So I ask, did you save yourself? Were you poor, or rich when you did it? I am not trying to be funny here, I am just assessing how difficult it must have been for you to do it, or, how easy, and how utterly foolish your proposal upon the meaning of the text is.

You are being foolish and an embarrassment.
Read:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-16#post-2194798

If you were poor then it must have been very easy to save yourself, because according to you Jesus meant it is merely difficult for the rich to do it, therefore logically it must be easy for the poor, a little tougher for the middle class and very difficult for the rich. If you were rich when you did it, tell us just how hard it was, or if poor, how easy it was. This is what you say the passage is about, how hard it is with rich men to be saved, because the passage says it is difficult for them.

This is why it is a proven fact you're teaching works salvation and you're doing it by not understanding the text, or you just don't know what you are doing altogether. I don't think you see what you're doing. If you did you'd know your teaching is Finney doctrine and you'd (hopefully!) put an end to it.

All non sequitor.
You have not read my post.
You do not know what I believe.
You do not know what Finney believe.
I am not certain if you even know what you believe.

 

[DHK]

Let's put it this way :Between Finney and Spurgeon you are a lot closer theologically to the former.

No, I am nowhere near Finney. Perhaps you need some education about him yourself.

Where did you dig up this gem of a falsehood --Dave Hunt or David Cloud?

Neither one. It is not a falsehood. Study your history. He grew up in a culture of persecution, that is, when the RCC persecuted those who were not RCC. It was a swirling controversy concerning baptism at that time.

 

[DHK]

While you're at it show us what Finney taught and how you've distanced yourself from that teaching.

I have taught you. Did you pay attention?

 

[MB]

Oh, salvation won't work unless man makes it work. God sounds so weak here. Are you sure it's Him?

Can you see where you assume? I didn't say man makes it work, you did. You see your trying to place words in my mouth. God is the one who makes it work He just does not force it down our throat

And a person, according to you, has to make himself willing, too. Sounds like hard work, maybe it's easy work, but work it is!
[/quote}
Breathing is work, being of a willing mind has nothing to do with labor. Being willing is a result of the holy Spirit convincing the man of Christ. Stop trying to make it seem I said something else other than what I said..

lol...OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yes, I like to use Scriptural principles in that way.



Why not? Make yourself willing and maybe you'll believe correct doctrine.


Sorry, but...ROFL!!!!

Yes I should know better that to tell someone who could care less about the truth.
MB

 

[Internet Theologian]

Finney was the President of Oberlin College and taught what came to be known as "Oberlin Theology."
He believed in entire sanctification and denied the depravity of man. He believed that theoretically it should be possible to build a community of believers on this earth entirely free from sin. To this end he tried to do so, but his experiment failed. But you probably know none of those things because you don't know very much about Finney, his history, and his doctrines. It is doubtful that you even know what "Oberlin Theology" is. Thus your argument is based on false accusations, innuendo, false premises, etc. You don't know what Finney believed and it is apparent you don't know what I believe.
You are simply embarrassing yourself.

You've Googled and now deem yourself and expert. I lived near Oberlin College and am fully aware of it. You teach as he taught that salvation is an act of the will. You'll have to go outside of a Google search to get what he really taught. All you've given are scant generalities that any person can find with Google.

I had said: The very fact that you link my teaching with him demonstrates that you don't know what I believe. --Now I have demonstrated who is the one ignorant of the teachings of Finney or you wouldn't have associate neither me nor MB with his teachings. In fact there is no one on this board that you would be able to honestly associate with his teachings. Those individuals would only post in the Other Christians Denominations Forum, as they would not be Baptists. Your accusations are entirely false. You simply continue to slander and malign others. Pitiful. Perhaps I should ask another moderator to look into your behavior.

Oh, so you've Googled and have crowned yourself the winner and that must mean that I am ignorant? How humble of you! Did you not teach salvation an act of the will? Finney also taught this error. His teachings on salvation are yours. GO ahead, get another moderator, I will own up to anything but the admins need to take a very close look at your behavior, for as a mod you continually call names, call others liars, lie about what they have said, say things they didn't and insult others on a regular basis, as in this post here. Many here have shown you this and are fully aware of it.

Perhaps you should educate yourself. Do a simple search on "heresies of Finney" and see what you find. Stop embarrassing yourself.You obviously don't have a clue what I believe. You simply associate me with someone who holds heretical views that are very contrary to mine. That leaves you clueless.Right?

Au contraire, I've shown specifically that what you believe he also believed. And I don't need to Google, I've read it, book form.

Are you still harping on that, even after I gave you a careful exposition of the passage from Mark 10? If you can 't follow the exposition from Mark 10, perhaps you should go back to school and retake English comprehension, or at least tell me what you don't understand in my explanation. But don't falsely accuse me all over again.

Careful eisegesis is more accurate. Then you add on more demeaning personal attacks.

Three times Jesus said it is difficult, and then Jesus said it is not impossible for all things are possible with God. But you refuse to look and see what I actually said. Either that or you need to go back to school and retake English comprehension if you ever had it in the first place.

There you go twisting what you said. I saw what you said so stop with your baseless nonsense. Jesus said with man it is impossible. YOU said with men entering the kingdom 'It isn't impossible but it is difficult' for them. Then as usual you make insults on my person.

You are being foolish and an embarrassment.

More personal insults. I don't need the links, I know what you said and have quoted you saying it.

All non sequitor. You have not read my post. You do not know what I believe.You do not know what Finney believe. I am not certain if you even know what you believe.

Keep telling yourself that!

 

[Rippon]

He can't as ignorant as Calvinism.

You mean Calvinists --not Calvinism.

But you are not an authority on Calvinism;to say the least. You are the one who said that by reading the commentaries of John Knotts it was helpful to you because they exposed the errors of Calvinism.LOL! I got such a kick out of that one.

Of course you were, and perhaps still are, unaware that Knox studied at the feet of John Calvin and appreciated his ministry very much.

Then, of course, Knox never wrote commentaries on books of the Bible.

That is just a sampling of how mixed up you are on this subject.

you seem to be in love with Augustine the author of the Catholic faith.

Care to document that charge?

 

[Internet Theologian]

I have taught you. Did you pay attention?

You're clueless. All you've provided was Google knowledge.

 

[MB]

...lol, like Paul was given a choice....

Right he was. Why else would he right away ask what the Lord would have him do. Asking what some one wants of them is a choice. He didn't have to ask. He was willing to do what ever the Lord asked and did
MB

 

[DHK]

You're clueless. All you've provided was Google knowledge.

You are wrong. If the information I provided you was from a google search I would have provided the URL, but it wasn't. It was what I have learned through a study of history, the history of Fundamentalism. I didn't have to look any of it up. You make invalid assumptions.

 

[MB]

You mean Calvinists --not Calvinism.

But you are not an authority on Calvinism;to say the least. You are the one who said that by reading the commentaries of John Knotts it was helpful to you because they exposed the errors of Calvinism.LOL! I got such a kick out of that one.

Of course you were, and perhaps still are, unaware that Knox studied at the feet of John Calvin and appreciated his ministry very much.

Then, of course, Knox never wrote commentaries on books of the Bible.

That is just a sampling of how mixed up you are on this subject.


Care to document that charge?

Now everyone can see your false accusations Rippon I've never read John Knotts nor did I ever claim I did. But I have read some of John Calvin's mistakes. And a bunch of your's LOL!

 

[Rippon]

No, I am nowhere near Finney.

I said you are a lot closer to Finney's theology than to that of Charles Spurgeon.

He grew up in a culture of persecution, that is, when the RCC persecuted those who were not RCC.

You charged that Augustine persecuted Bible-believing Christians. That is completely untrue. Of course we all expect you to falsify history as you have done so on countless occasions here on the BB.

Now, back up your charge. Document. If you can't document than admit you have been wrong. It's that simple.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Can you see where you assume? I didn't say man makes it work, you did.

You didn't? Here is what you said, and say it you did!:

Salvation is free gift that has to be accepted in order for it to work.MB

You see your trying to place words in my mouth. God is the one who makes it work He just does not force it down our throat

No, I keep placing your quotes in your mouth. Who said a thing about it being forced down our throats?

 

[Rippon]

Now everyone can see your false accusations Rippon I've never read John Knotts nor did I ever claim I did.

Of course you said you did. You meant John Knox --but even if you had said John Knox you would have been totally wrong, as I have pointed out.

But I have read some of John Calvin's mistakes. And a bunch of your's [sic]

Based on your posting history I doubt that you can tell what is truth and what is error.

 

[Internet Theologian]

You are wrong. If the information I provided you was from a google search I would have provided the URL, but it wasn't. It was what I have learned through a study of history, the history of Fundamentalism. I didn't have to look any of it up. You make invalid assumptions.

Um, no, I'm not wrong. You've only provided general scant things about him, mentioned 'Oberlin Theology' and none of his soteriological views because you know none of them.

That is the context of his teachings in this thread and in what we are discussing. Instead of providing that you talk about Oberlin College and generally nothing about his soteriology. This my friend is because you don't know what he taught soteriologically.

What were his ideologies called? Google it, because you do not know, and if you did know it would be something you would have known to use right off the bat and you'd also be fully aware that his views are an exact match of your views.