Does God love everyone?

DHK

but he still is outside of Christ.

No such provision is spoken of.

This is only true for the believer.

This is completely false for those outside of Christ. They will find that out at the White Throne judgment

All would be saved if that was so.

men do not want it.

correct

Yes..it is offered to all.

 

People are outside of Christ because they reject Him (John 14:6; 3:16-18, 36)

1 John 2:2; John 3:16; Rom.5:8
Christ died for all; the just for the unjust that He might bring us to God. Were you not unjust at one time?

Your Calvinistic philosophy doesn't count. Only the scriptures are true and faithful. We must base our beliefs on them, not your interpretation of them.

The verse says "God reconciling MAN to himself. Why do you try to change the meaning of it?
Do you no longer believe in sola fide.
Were you at one time outside of Christ?
If so, how can you be sure that you are one of the ones that Christ died for, and not of that group that he didn't. How do you know for sure?

Fallacious Calvinistic reasoning. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Did that include you? How did you get it?
Again, do you not believe in sola fide?

 

DHK

People are outside of Christ from conception. Many have lived and died without ever hearing of Christ and they died in their sins.
Something happened. Theologians call it ....THE FALL, OR ORIGINAL SIN.
It brought sin and death , it separated man from God.
Let me "share with you"...from the 4 spiritual laws tract;
law 2-

Man is sinful and separated from God.

1. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Rom. 3:23). "For the wages of sin is death," (Rom. 6:23). "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God," (Isaiah 59:2).
   

Still not seeing this clearly EHHH???

And neither does your anti cal jihad....

,
This is true.....

or yours for that matter.... i am basing my comments on the teaching of Jesus.

I do not have to change the meaning at all. I just have to correctly understand who it is speaking of?

Some people in the world are reconciled to God......not everyone. That is why their is still a ministry of reconciliation going on until Jesus seeks and saves all the Father has given Him.

off topic

off topicCautious

Good question but off topic-Cautious

That's how i know you still do not have a handle on it...you are agenda driven.

off topic againCautious

Again...off topic-Cautious

 

• 
  Are you contradicting the truth of John 14:6?
  Did he not say: "I am the way, the truth, and the life?
  No man comes unto the Father but BY me?
  Christ is the only way to heaven. Or is Christ lying here?
  
  I see perfectly clear. Let me quote the verse so that you can see it perfectly as well:
  
  1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
  --He died for all. The Scripture says; I believe it. Now Calvin--that is a different matter.
  
  When Calvinism causes blindness or the constant misinterpretation of Scripture it should be discarded.
  
  
  I doubt it. Maybe Calvin's interpretation.
  
  
  The ministry of reconciliation has been given to all believers. All might not be saved, but all need to have the chance to be saved. He has obliged us to go with this wonderful message to the ends of the world. It is called the Great Commission. Are we obeying Him?
  
  
  They are not off topic, rather they go right to the point or the crux of the subject at hand. You can't answer them.
  It is like asking a person what they believe and they can't tell you.
  I ask you directly about sola fide and you can't tell me?? That is one of the great solas of the reformers!!
  Things like that are disturbing. How many other solas do you not believe?
  They are not off topic. Personal, perhaps, but not off topic.

 

DHK

• no..not at all...I was speaking to your false observation.
  
• Yes...He did speak of His Covenant love for all of the elect right here!
  
• 
  
  .
  
• yes of course He is.Who said otherwise? Try and stay on topic.
  

• Why would you suggest such an evil thing?
  

• The thing is......"the sins of"....is not in the text.....you add it.

• 2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world,...see...not there!

• 
  --He died for all. The Scripture says; I believe it. Now Calvin--that is a different matter.
  
  

This thread is about God's love, not the 5 solas...or calvin....off topic again.

 

Let's examine the texts you have provided in support of your position;

John 14:6 does not prove your premise, it says "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." As you well know this passage shows the exclusive way of salvation and Christ as the only way. You've used this as a text to prove people are only lost for rejecting Christ. It does not say this.

John 3:16-18 does not prove your premise either; "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

It states that whoever does not believe is condemned already. So people are already lost showing the necessity to believe on Christ. Note the word 'already', in other words it is not due to rejection of Christ that these are condemned, it is showing that these are already condemned not for having 'rejected Christ' or according to an action they've completed, but because they are in a lost state as well as all those who are outside of Christ, Eph. 2:3. So all are lost prior to 'rejecting Christ', note Romans 3:9ff, that all are under sin.

John 3:36 says "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." You've employed this text as well to prove your premise but again it does not support what you are saying. Christ came to seek and save that which was lost but these were all lost prior to, as you put it, having rejected Christ.

 

Jesus is the only way; there is no other way. All other religions are false. Every man has a religion. There is no such thing as an atheist, and if there was his "atheism" would be a religion in and of itself. Every person outside of true Christianity is idolatrous. They have replaced Christ with their own form of idolatry. Christ is the only way. People stand condemned because they have rejected Christ and replaced him with some other form of religion.

For example, the Koran mentions Christ more times than it mentions Mohammed. Yet, Mohammed is greater, according to Islam, than Christ. They have replaced Christ with Mohammed. They have rejected Christ, and on that basis will be condemned.

In Hinduism there are hundreds and hundreds of gods. Christ may be one out of hundreds. However, he is rejected in favor of Vishnu, Brahma, or Ganesh, or some other lesser god. They will go to Hell because they have rejected Christ--the only way to heaven.

Why is the statement of Christ questioned here. Why is his authority and integrity put in question here?
Either he is the only way to heaven or he isn't? Do you have a problem with Christ stating that he is the only way? Or do you believe there is another way? If he is the only way, then men who are condemned are condemned on the basis of refusing him.

 

There is nothing wrong with your major premise....those who reject Christ perish.

The problem is.....many never hear of Christ......they also perish. Not because of rejection....but because of unrepented , unpaid for sin.

 

Here is what I believe, not just about your beliefs, but of many who post here.
You are unable to take basic Bible truths at face value. You cannot take the words of Jesus as they are without question. Instead you must reason out those things which you believe are valid questions: What about.........
What about those who have never heard...
those who are intellectually challenged...
those who die in infancy or before the age of accountability...
--and many other such questions.

You don't have the answers. And for good reason! God has not revealed all His answers to us. "The secret things belong unto the Lord." His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. How can a finite mind understand the infinite mind of the incomprehensible Almighty Eternal Godhead? We can't. It is impossible. And, yet because you cannot understand these questions it causes you to reject basic truth that Christ has already taught--Christ is the only way; there is no other way. It is that simple. There are no exception clauses in Christ's statements.
Who are you to make the exception clauses, to edit and redact the Bible and the words of Christ?

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

DHK

okay...let's look-

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Those of us you speak of....DO THIS.

I have all I need that pertains to life and godliness;2 pet1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

But you only quote half of it;
I live in the second half of the verse; deut29;
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

and again-
1cor2
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God

Yes....good verse-

With God all things are possible....We are dependent on Him to reveal His truth to us......you many times claim man can figure it out by himself, and we tell you...the way of man is not in himself.

.

I have a solid biblical understanding of all these questions...most all the Cals on here do. You could learn about it also.

I do not do this at all. I understand the information given. there is more to learn of course on each aspect of revealed truth. but we do not have to re-invent the wheel.

This warning verse seems a bit random to me....hhmmm???
Okay...I will offer a random verse also; Deut23;

 

The Bereans searched the OT in order to find out if the NT truths that Paul was preaching were genuinely true. That is the same obligation we have when we listen to our preachers--not to take what they preach at face value, but rather check from the Word of God to verify that it is truth.

They were not using the Scriptures to speculate on philosophical questions they had no answer to.
That is what you have been doing, and that is where you stumble. You claim to have answers you don't.

Those are nice verses but they have nothing to do with the questions that were posed--those philosophical questions that were originally posited by you because you didn't want to take Christ at his word (John 14:6). But what about...., you said, indirectly questioning the integrity of Christ.

Do any of those verses promise you that you will have the same knowledge God has, or that you will be omniscient??
In a previous post I asked you some questions. What were your answers? Right here:

You have a hard time answering personal and difficult questions. You couldn't answer them then, and you can't now.

No, not all things are possible.
It is impossible for God to lie.
It is impossible for God to do that which is against His nature.

And what I said was this:
How can a finite mind understand the infinite mind of the incomprehensible Almighty Eternal Godhead? We can't. It is impossible.
Not even with God is this possible. The finite mind cannot understand the infinite God.
.

Your understanding is badly lacking. You won't even answer basic questions concerning salvation.

Jesus claimed to be the only way to heaven. True or false.
Either we go through him or we don't go at all. True or false.
Thus salvation is either by receiving him or rejecting him. True or false.

 

My post stands as is. You have no answer for the good verses offered as usual.
I was not, or am not the topic of the OP. You continue to be off topic.....yet the other day you chided me that I was off topic......interesting.

 

DHK, we too take the scriptures at face value. But 'world' rarely, if ever, means everybody who ever lived. There is the world, as in earth, that God hung upon nothing[Job 26:7] Then there is the 'world' in regards to the lost. So if there is a 'world' in regards to unbelievers, there also must be a 'world' of believers.

Now, what IT touched upon was quite good. If Christ had not come into this world, everybody, including you and I, would be justly condemned. The sentence of death(condemnation) was already upon us. So you are correct in saying people are condemned by denying Christ, yet, they were already condemned to begin with. If God withholds His grace from some, He has done them no harm, no injustice. They were already condemned in Adam to begin with.

Look at how God instructed Moses to speak to Pharaoh. Not once did He tell Moses to give them a message of reconciliation. It was ‘Let My people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the wilderness.’[Ex. 5:1] 'Let My people go, so that they may worship me in the wilderness.'[Ex. 7:16]

Then when David and Israel fought against Goliath and the Philistines, there was never a message of reconciliation given to them, either.

 

You are perpetually wrong DHK. I have taken the time to explain this over and over to you but it has either gone over your head or you are being obstinate --probably the latter.

Take a gander at this AGAIN:

John 11:51 : Jesus // //////////////////////////////////1 John 2:2 : He is
_________would die for///////////////_______________the atoning sacrifice
_________the Jewish nation//////////////////__________for our sins
_____and not only for that nation////////////////////////////////and not only for ours
_____but also/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////but also
_____for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one//for the sins of the whole world

John is the other of both books. He is speaking of the same subject using the same language. Jesus did not for the sins of the Jews alone, but for the sins of His children among the Gentiles scattered around the world.

See Rev. 5:11;7:9; and 14:4 for confirmation

 

Scripture says that God is love. It is central in Scripture. But it doesn't say it constitutes the "very essence of God." The holiness of God is parapmount for instance. He is the thrice holy God. He has many attributes. I think one is Divine hatred of some individuals.

Psalms
5:5 : You hate all who do wrong
5:6 : The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
11:5 : but the wicked, those who love violence he hates with a passion.
53:5 : for God despised them.
Proverbs
3:32 : For the Lord detests the perverse
11:20 : The Lord detests those whose hearts are perverse
12:22 : The Lord detests lying lips
6;19 : [The Lord detests] a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community
16:5 : The Lord detests all the proud of heart

Deut.
22:5 : A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone doing this.
25:16 : For the Lord your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.


God certainly does not love all people as Scripture amply demonstrates.

 

DHK, in another response to you accusing us of not taking the scriptures at face value, I will respond for myself. I agree with every word of God's holy writ. Now, I will be the first to tell you I do not have an answer for every question you ask me, nor do I have an answer for many verses I have read. But I am thankful for what knowledge He has bestowed unto moi.

Now, I want to focus on some of the verses you love to support your view.

--"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”[Matt. 1:21]

Now, if all of the world, everybody who ever lived were God's people, taken as literal, then no one goes to hell. It says He will save, not He might if they do 'this', but He will save them from their sins.

--"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."[2 Cor. 5:19]

Now, if God is reconciling the world to Himself through Christ, how does He do this? Via the gospel. Now, you admitted to me once that not everybody has heard the gospel and that was the need of the gospel being proclaimed(and I wholeheartedly agree). In John 6:45, Jesus said "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me[/u]." So it takes the proclamation of the gospel to save sinners from their sins. So if everybody without exception has not heard the gospel(as you concurred to me), then we can now tackle...

--And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."[John 12:32]

So, if not everybody has heard the gospel, as you readily admitted to me, then how can they be drawn, if 'all' means 'everybody without exception'? As Apostle Paul wrote, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[Rom. 10:14] So without the gospel being preached unto them, they can not be saved. Without the gospel being proclaimed unto them, Christ will not draw them.

I will show you more biblical proof later, mon ami.

 

Now, let us tackle this:

--He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.[1 John 2:2]

Now, let us look at the words 'atoning sacrifice', or as the KJB puts it, 'propitiation'. The definition for atoning is 1) to make amends or reparation, as for an offense or a crime, or for an offender (usually followed by for), 2) to make up, as for errors or deficiencies (usually followed by for), 3) to make amends for; expiate, 4) Obsolete. to become reconciled; agree, and 5) Obsolete. to bring into unity, harmony, concord, etc. In all of these definition, atoning/atonement/atone all do something definite, make amends, repair a breach, &c. Look closely at 5 where it says Obsolete. to bring into unity, harmony, concord, etc. This is not applicable to those who die lost, who perish in their sins, and it is their sins that But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.[Isa. 59:2] When Christ atoned, propitiated for our sins, and the whole world, it was the world of believers, and not unbelievers. So if Christ's atoning sacrifice was for everybody without exception, then He has made amends with God, has saved everybody, as He death, burial, and resurrection was for a definite people, His sheep.

 

No, I am sorry this is just good old question begging.

 

Please show me where I am wrong Monsieur.

 

Wait what? There is nothing to show. You made a claim. That claim was unsupported. The world is the world, it is inclusive of everyone both the lost and believers at the same time. There is no world for the lost and another world for believers. The lost and believers are in the same exact world. We all were lost at one time and there is no declaration or implication that ties world to the false view of election.