Does God love everyone?

[JonC]

I see this that man is dead in transgressions and sins, and therefore he freely chooses to do that which is consistent with an enemy of God. As long as man's spirit is dead, he is bent towards sin and self. It is only after being begotten via the gospel that he can seek God in an earnest fashion.




Spiritual death is separation from God, I will quickly agree. Yet, it is more than just that. When Adam died spiritually, he was cut off from the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life was symbolic of the Christ to come that whosoever eats of that Tree will live forever. We, due to Adam's rebellion, were cut off from this very same tree, too. This Tree(Christ) is the only Source of life our spirit can receive. So yes, we were dead, cut-off from God via our sins, but also dead spiritually.


What is this, Monsieur? Is this a tablet? If it's refurbished, wouldn't it be a re-TARDIS?

I am delighted that we have a commonality of view in parts of this teaching, and I suggest that this is where Scripture meets doctrine as both of us strive towards a proper interpretation of God’s Word. But there are areas where we may disagree (at least to some extent) as well.

The illustration of spiritually dead persons needing to be “quickened” or made “alive” is well and good. Some, however, take this truth to extremes and in so doing minimize other doctrines. They push a truth too far. Rather than God working in the life of lost soul towards faith, towards repentance and belief, until that person has been drawn to the Truth, we have those who suggest that God makes dead corpse-like souls alive so that they can believe. Once quickened these newly regenerated people have the capacity for faith or belief in Jesus Christ (men must be “made alive” so that they can believe). The problem with this “logical order” is its separation of this “quickening” from Christ as the Source of life itself. Yet many dogmatically cling to illustrative points as literal doctrine upon which to build further theological points. I believe that this error can be clearly seen throughout the pages of this forum.

My position is simply that we are at first spiritually dead in that we reject (by nature and by choice) God. Being thus alienated in spirit, we are also alienated in terms of being able to discern things of the Spirit. God’s work of drawing men into faith (of giving men to Christ) is not in that He regenerates men so that they can then believe but instead that He draws them to belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ so that being found in Christ they have life.

Insofar as my TARDIS, it looks like a smart phone.....but it's bigger on the inside.

 

[agedman]

This is what I have been saying all along, agedman purposefully and willfully overlooks the actions of 'the mod' and only comes in to malign those who defend themselves against his behaviors. It's hypocritical on his part.

I would like you to report any and all posts that you consider I malign the character of another member of the BB.

That way there will be a record of such infractions.

Then perhaps you should also do the same for yourself.

Let's see the consistency


I am not defending anyone and neither am I maligning anyone.

I have called into question Rippon, Icon, and DHK on specific areas that I desired more of their thinking.

Perhaps you see it as defending but I see it as seeking clarification.

 

[kyredneck]

as seeking clarification

I've been seeking clarification on the difference between IT's 'true' sola fide doctrine and all other's 'perverted' sola fide doctrine. 'Faith alone' seems to be one of the few teachings that 'both sides' share in common, but IT says the their 'faith alone' doctrine is perverted which confuses me because 'faith alone' should mean ONLY 'faith alone'. Right? What makes his true and their's perverted?

 

[Internet Theologian]

I've been seeking clarification on the difference between IT's 'true' sola fide doctrine and all other's 'perverted' sola fide doctrine. 'Faith alone' seems to be one of the few teachings that 'both sides' share in common, but IT says the their 'faith alone' doctrine is perverted which confuses me because 'faith alone' should mean ONLY 'faith alone'. Right? What makes his true and their's perverted?

Show me where I said 'their "faith alone" doctrine is perverted' or, instead act like a believer and learn to stop misrepresenting me and putting words in my mouth? Go find a quote where I called the other 'perverted'.

That being addressed, my point is that no Reformed believer believes that faith alone is a faith that is alone. This is the second time I've shown you this.

Here is what you said when I quoted you and snipped the ad hominem from you:

<nonsense snipped> Can you tell me the difference between your 'sola fide' and their 'sola fide'?

Here was my response, to which you 'disagreed'

I already did.

I've also done so again. If you cannot recognize the difference I can't help you. I've been quite clear, you've been ad hominem, straw man, and say things I've never stated and attribute it to me. Why not deal with actual facts and things really stated and leave off the false accusations?

 

[kyredneck]

no Reformed believer believes that faith alone is a faith that is alone.

Ohhhh, kinda like I been saying all along with passages such as:

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith apart from works is barren?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Jas 2

Maybe you reformed types should drop the designation 'faith alone' because as you say it's NOT 'a faith that is alone'.

 

[kyredneck]

Show me where I said 'their "faith alone" doctrine is perverted'

I agree that some hold to that view and but it isn't formally the doctrine of Sola Fide but a perversion of the true Gospel.

...and all I wanted all this time is a simple explanation of the difference between your 'faith alone' doctrine and their 'faith alone' doctrine and it seems to me your's is the perversion of 'faith alone', because you don't really really really hold to 'faith alone'.

Which again, the ONLY mention of 'faith alone' to be found in the Bible is here:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Jas 2

 

[DHK]

DHK,
Deleting threads will not let you escape and post such falsehoods

I had not even seen your thread, much less read it until others complained about it. It was unethical and therefore deleted. Attack threads are not permitted. If you want to start a thread on a given doctrinal subject be my guest. Note the forum your in: Baptist Theology and Bible Study. I didn't see any theology being presented in your thread.

That is not the only criteria for someone going to hell. All such false pronouncements do not make it so....Many reasons are given for those who go into second death.

The reasons that those go into the second death is because their names are not written in the Book of Life. They are not written in the Book of Life because they never trusted Christ or would never have trusted Christ if given the opportunity. But that is not what your dear Calvinism teaches.

Here is what the Bible clearly teaches:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--Either they accept Christ or they reject Christ. That is the criteria.
If you don't accept that criteria, then once again are you going to call into question the very integrity of Christ; call into question his words, and infer that he has lied? Do you believe him or not?

all such what about questions can see you have missed it, and are not questioning Jesus words.....Not to burst your bubble DHK, but Jesus has not made you His spokesman......so that means that people can question your wrong understandings which are in most of your posts..

Actually Jesus has made me his spokesman.
I am his Ambassador (2Cor.5:20)
I am his witness (Acts 1:8)
I am his preacher (Mark 16:16; 1Cor.1:18) And, much, much more.
--But there are some here that believe the Great Commission is not for today. I don't know if you are among them.
--But go ahead and ask questions. If you don't like the answer then maybe just pray about it instead of getting angry about as is evidenced by the many icons you post.

You say;...you believe them don't you??? as if someone who disagrees with your error, somehow must not believe Jesus?????seriouslyDevilish

Ooooh...talking about a nasty angry icon. Take a couple of deep breaths there, Icon.
I simply quoted the Word of God, like John 14:6, and asked if you believed in Jesus words here.
You got angry. For what cause? Do you believe in another way to heaven except by Jesus? Is that why you are angry?

Denying The facts of what the biblical God has done, then substituting a caricature is not going to get it done....

Here you were answering me about the "hard determinism" about Calvinism.
I will give you an example and I want you to tell me the difference.

Some years ago a Muslim terrorist shot down a plane that was carrying another Muslim leader and a few of his generals. In the same plane was an American ambassador plus one other American. It was a tragedy to be sure. A day or two later I was discussing this incident with a devout Muslim man. He replied with a typical Islamic answer: "It is the will of Allah."
Now, not long ago, some Islamic terrorists shot up a cafe in Paris killing a number of patrons.
Now lets just suppose, as all in the plane were killed, all were unsaved, so all in the cafe that were killed, all were unsaved. Calvinism teaches that "it is the will of God."
--There is no difference between the fatalism (a vital doctrine in Islam), and fatalism (hard determinism) of Calvinism--none whatsoever. It is an Islamic belief as far as I am concerned.
There is no doctrine in the Bible where God condemns or assigns any group of people from eternity past to eternal Hell or condemnation without any opportunity or grace to be saved. That is what makes the God of Calvinism the author of evil, and much more.

The bible knows that God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.....some here do not seem to know this God.

God is not fatalistic. He does not randomly choose some to go to heaven and some to go to hell depending on the mood he is in. He looks down the corridors of eternity and from his own omniscience knows those who will freely trust him and those who will not. On that basis they are "the chosen ones."

The false free will /idol/robot objection again.....

If man didn't have a free will he wouldn't be made in the image of God.
If man didn't have a free will there would be no difference between man and an animal.
However, many men act just like animals anyway.

This is to diminish God's perfections...very evil.....Jesus was clear in Jn 6:37-44

Jesus is always very clear. He is also perfect and omniscient. Your understanding of him is clouded and imperfect. And for that you call me evil?? Take a breath and sit down.

he will say that to all who remain in Adam.....

You do err not knowing the scriptures.
This verse:
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
is written and spoken to false teachers.
What is said to the unsaved in general is recorded in Rev.20:11-15. There is a difference.

Man centered error.

I said: "God calls; man chooses (or receives)."
Tell me, if you never received Christ, how were you saved? Do you mind giving a testimony of your salvation? How does one get saved without any faith or trust in Christ, or receiving him as Saviour? Tell me how that is possible?

No...not at all...

Stephen does refute your position in Acts 7:51, you just won't admit it.

All who resist God's grace in this way are reprobates....obviously not sheep.

Obviously! Thus Grace is irresistible, just as Stephen demonstrated.

Many have showed it to you....ye do always resist....

No one on this board, not you, not anyone, has been able to demonstrate through Scripture that faith is a gift to the unregenerate. It isn't taught in the Bible, and there isn't an ounce of Biblical support for it.

Of course not...He effectually draws them to salvation, gifts to follow

And that is why faith is not given to the unregenerate. You just admit it now.

You say this when someone posts truth.....interesting..

What truth was posted. No one posted truth concerning faith being given to the unregenerate. In order to post truth one must back it up with Scripture. I don't want your Calvinistic philosophy. Show me from the Bible the truth. You can't.

You do not want an answer at all....it destroys nothing when rightly understood
news flash....the five solas were from Calvinists....and are embraced by Cal's

I have challenged you in this post by challenging you to give your testimony how you were saved by faith. That is sola fide. Or have you cast sola fide out the window. If you have truly embraced sola fide, you will be able to demonstrate through your testimony. Agreed?

Your evil caricatures are revolting....and profane...repent of this vile posting.

What evil?
Sit down and take a breath.

 

[Iconoclast]

What a disgraceful post.to suggest biblical Calvinism is the same as Islam demonstrates you're unfit to be a moderator on a Christian board

 

[DHK]

Philippians 1:29 : "For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him."

This "privilege" business is not in the text. You have inserted it. God grants --gives faith to certain ones according to His good pleasure.

No, I haven't inserted it. It is the meaning of the verse which you haven't bothered to study out. You are simply using it as a proof text which is typical. Even other translators know better:

(GW) God has given you the privilege not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for him.

(ISV) For you have been given the privilege for the Messiah's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him.

(WNT) For you have had the privilege granted you on behalf of Christ--not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf;

Faith is not granted to anyone. That is eisigesis and a butchering of the text. It also doesn't make sense.
Look at the fallacies of your interpretation.
If faith was granted to you, then so was suffering.
Not only was salvation granted (belief), but so was suffering.
Therefore (your Calvinistic view of) salvation is a works salvation. You must (like the Shiite Muslims) practice a form of self-flagellation or some other suffering before you can be saved.
God doesn't give the faith nor the suffering before salvation. To take this position leads to all kinds of ridiculous conclusions, if not heresies. (as shown)

Rather, it is a privilege to believe (have salvation), and a privilege to suffer for his sake.
That is the plain teaching of Scripture here.
Please do some more study on this verse before blurting out some embarrassing remarks.

 

[Iconoclast]

You deleted the other thread containing direct quotes because the posts were vile . You call attack post because seeing those posts lined up
Like that was making people nauseous.

 

[DHK]

You deleted the other thread containing direct quotes because the posts were vile . You call attack post because seeing those posts lined up
Like that was making people nauseous.

Now you question my motives, my integrity, and call me a liar.
What purpose do you have here?

 

[DHK]

Christians here are amazed that you have audacity to say such an evil thing as that.

It comes from God --not your mythical innate faith. But you believe you made your "decision" all by your lonesome --God was not involved. Oh, he may have been on the sidelines listening but he certainly did not want to impose on you. Your faith surely must be attributed to your superior wisdom and perception. After all, you have insisted that's how somone can come to Christ.

Do you know what bearing false witness is, and what God says about it? You shouldn't engage in it?
Do you believe in sola fide?
Tell me how you were saved? Was faith involved?