Does God love everyone?

Again, in 2 Peter 2:1 has nothing to do with soteriology. You have imposed your DHK-brand onto the text. You will find no Bible commentator who hold your view that the false teachers are damned because they believed in "limited atonement." You are being absurd and twisting Scripture at every juncture.

You are the one making that claim. I do not believe the company of the elect are few. The Word of God refutes that.

Again, this "select few" stuff is your fiction. Since no one holds to it --why bring it up? That is your normal MO. False canards is all you have.

 

Your constant drumbeat of falsehood is striking. You have denied 2 Thess. 3:2 hunreds of times in your posts for more than a decade. It says in that reference :"Not everyone has faith." Do not deny the Word of God. It's a shame that you deny that God gave you faith. If it was all of yourself you wouln't be saved in the first place. There is no such thing as innate faith. That view is corrupt theology.​

 

The cross is the central point of all history. History before the cross looks toward it, and history after the cross looks back at it. It is the central point of all history.
Thus Christ says:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--If they didn't believe on his work on the cross they are damned.
Romans 1:20 says "they are without excuse."

This is the ad hominem that a Calvinist answers with when he hears an honest portrayal of his God painted by a non-Cal. But what to expect when one believes in a God who before eternity creates those whom he is said to love and then deliberately casts straight into Hell for all eternity? How does that in any way glorify God? It doesn't. It makes him the author of evil.

Free-will of man is taught in the Bible. Was Cain forced to kill Abel. No, he freely chose to do so.
Abel freely chose to worship God. Both were made in the image of God. Within that image is the power to choose between right and wrong.

God doesn't force his salvation on anyone. He, in his omniscience, knows those who of their own free will, will believe on Him. On that basis they are chosen. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

You err not knowing the scripture.
Read the chapter. He is referring to false teachers throughout the entire chapter.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--He is speaking of false teachers!

All of his elect come to him willingly.
Paul did not force the jailer to come to Christ. He simply said:
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

You have never been able to demonstrate that faith is a gift given to the unregenerate. Don't make a statement you can't back up with scripture.

What lie? I simply stated in so many words that you are a Calvinist that believes in hard determinism.

Pharoah had hardened his heart before God further hardened it.
You believe God receives glory by actively consigning people to Hell before He even creates them, before they have done good or evil. You thus make him the author of evil.

I oppose Calvin; not the Word of God.
Calvin will give an account of his own self and I will give an account for myself. I find it sad that so many people have followed his error.

 

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

It has everything to do with soteriology, the soteriology that false teachers taught at the time of Peter, and that he rebuked publicly. The verse speaks for itself. I hardly have to interpret it. It is very literal. In fact one would have to spiritualize it to get out of the plain teaching that it gives, that limited atonement is condemned by Peter.

But for those who have difficulty with the King's English let's look at some very simple renderings:
(ASV) But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(Darby) But there were false prophets also among the people, as there shall be also among you false teachers, who shall bring in by the bye destructive heresies, and deny the master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction;

(DRB) But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers who shall bring in sects of perdition and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(EMTV) But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master, the One having bought them, and bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(ESV) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

(ISV) Now there were false prophets among the people, just as there also will be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

(LITV) But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

(MKJV) But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

And one of my favorites:
(WNT) But there were also false prophets among the people, as there will be teachers of falsehood among you also, who will cunningly introduce fatal divisions, disowning even the Sovereign Lord who has redeemed them, and bringing on themselves swift destruction.

Couldn't be any clearer could it?
A false teacher is one who denies that the Sovereign Lord has redeemed them.
Calvin denied that the Sovereign Lord has (or can) redeem those whom he considers "the non-elect."

 

By grace through faith not by faith.

 

I do not believe that God has loved those who are deservedly condemned to Hell for their sins. All of us deserve to spend eternity in Perdition for our sins. But God, in His mercy has reserved for Himself those who will be with Him for eternity in glory instead. You constantly cast aspersions on the character of God. He is not the Author of evil. You are evil to say such a thing.God receives glory in the death of the wicked and the everlasting life of the vessels of mercy.

Only in the synergistic DHK version. Man freely sins. It is is his volition to do so. It is not in his power to turn to God. Only God can turn that man unto Himself.

Blah, blah, blah. You have not grown in your knowledge of the Word of God at all.

Well, what do you know? That's one of the few times I can agree with you.

No, you are wrong. Look at Exodus 7:3 :"But I will harden Pharaoh's heart..." That's the first reference to the heart of Pharaoh.

 

I challenge you to find a single Bible commentary --(a legitimate book published by a real Bible scholar) who says that 2 Peter 2:1 is speaking of the doctrine of limited atonement. And furthur, that that doctrine is the one of the destructive heresies being mentioned. Your contention is simply infantile bunk.

Then you believe that the Lord has redeemed each and every person who has and shall live. Each and every person is in glory or glory-bound according to your view. I say utter nonsense.

 

You have a known practice of telling others about the irrelevancy of Scripture used. None is irrelevant, all is profitable, 2 Timothy 3:16 unless you want to go ahead and dismiss this one as well go for it yet it still holds true.

But this is how you dismiss Scripture that disproves your presuppositional ideologies. It's sad really, but you do indeed practice this here, you do the same with the Psalms 'they're only imprecatory' so you dismiss the Word out of hand in that way as well.

Nothing is irrelevant with Eph. 1:19. We believe by the power of God that raised the Christ of God from the dead, this is what the passage teaches, as does the rest of Scripture that faith is not innate, it comes from God, Php. 1:29, Romans 10:17, and by His power, Eph. :19, and therefore is not innate by the testimony of the Word of God. Yet you call that irrelevant and instead give the power to mankind.

 

God most certainly will cast many into hell whom He created. And this will glorify Him. Glorification means and includes His attributes on display, and in this case it is His justice. You're showing (up above) a misunderstanding of God's glory being revealed or recognized.

 

There we have it, DHK saying that those who hold to limited atonement are heretics and damnable at that. And gets by with it frequently.

 

Brother it is striking as you say and his dismissal of Scripture is unbelievable to behold!

 

Struck a nerve did I?
Here is the problem. It comes down to my "experts" vs. your "experts."
Of course there are many Reformed or Calvinistic commentaries, probably more than non-Cal.
And if I offer you those that do give a non-Cal position you will automatically dismiss them, as you have just said you will, as "non-legitimate." So what is the use?
Needless to say, I can give you at least three:
The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Walvoord and Zuck)
Believer's Bible Commentary (MacDonald)
and your favorite--the esteemed Dave Hunt.

Any of the above will take the same view which I have espoused to you and express it much better than I have.
For example:

Satan’s counterfeits with their insidious activities are always present. They appeared in Israel during the days of the writing prophets spoken of in 2Pe_1:19-21, and they were present in the first-century church. Though Peter switched from writing about false prophets of the past to false teachers in the present, their teaching was the same-heresy. False prophets often rose out of Israel (cf. Jer_5:31; Jer_23:9-18), not from surrounding peoples. Similarly false teachers appear from the midst of the church. They secretly introduce their false teachings which are destructive heresies. “Secretly introduce” translates pareisaxousin, “bring in alongside” (cf. “infiltrated,” which translates the related noun pareisaktous, in Gal_2:4). “Heresies” transliterates the Greek word haireseis, which in classical Greek simply meant schools of philosophy. But New Testament writers used it to describe religious parties or sects (e.g., the Sadducees [Act_5:17] or the Pharisees [Act_15:5]), or factions probably based on false doctrine (e.g., 1Co_11:19, “differences,” NIV; “factions,” NASB). Such heresies are “destructive,” for they lead people away from Christ and thus to spiritual ruin (apōleias).
The focus of their heresies was the sovereign Lord, Christ, whom they denied (cf. Jud_1:4). This in turn led to their own spiritual destruction or ruin (apōleian; cf. 2Pe_2:3; 2Pe_3:16), which will be swift (tachinēn, “sudden”; cf. tachinē [“soon”] in 2Pe_1:14). How can these false teachers, who were said to be among the people, and whom the Lord had bought (agorasanta, “redeem”), end up in everlasting destruction? Several suggestions have been offered: (1) They were saved but lost their salvation. But this contradicts many other Scriptures (e.g., Joh_3:16; Joh_5:24; Joh_10:28-29). (2) “Bought” means the Lord created them, not that He saved them. But this stretches the meaning of agorazō (“redeem”). (3) The false prophets merely said they were “bought” by Christ. This, however, seems to read into the verse. (4) They were “redeemed” in the sense that Christ paid the redemptive price for their salvation, but they did not apply it to themselves and so were not saved. Christ’s death is “sufficient” for all (1Ti_2:6; Heb_2:9; 1Jn_2:2), but is “efficient” only for those who believe. This is a strong argument for unlimited atonement (the view that Christ died for everyone) and against limited atonement (the view that Christ died only for those whom He would later save).
--Walvoord.

No. Here is a partial quote from MacDonald

 

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
You simply quote the latter half of this verse without context and think you have a proof text??
Surely you can do better than that! Have you even bothered to look at the context?
It is a prayer of Paul. He speaks of unreasonable and wicked men, men that are not saved, men who have not yet "put their faith in Christ." All men do not yet have faith in Christ.
All men do have innate faith. "Even the devils believe and tremble."
God didn't give me the faith to believe. God increased my faith after I believed. My faith to believe came when I was convinced of the Word that it was true, reliable, and applicable to myself. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Study the Scriptures and find out where faith comes from.

 

Do not the Scriptures teach that the Lord Jesus Christ is the AUTHOR of our (believer's ) faith?

That the humankind can express a certain amount of trust, or a human hope does not make that hope or trust even if it is called "faith" by the worldly, anything that could attain to the righteousness of God.

So, of course the Lord will show that the faith of the child, the trust of the child, is the same as the trust of one who has the faith of God implanted in them. For, that believer does trust as a child in the great hope of the resurrection and eternity.

Is there then not that human hope and trust that is part of the fallen, and part of the ability to express such a fallen faith just as there is ability to express human love and giving of good offerings in the sense of what humankind consider good? But nothing of the flesh (according to Romans) can ever attain to the righteousness of God, and in fact when confronted by the failure of that which humankind would desire to be acceptable and is as rejected as that offering by Cain results in anger and rejection as again exampled by Cain?

That faith that is authored by Christ is never rejected, for it is part of the empowerment of which John (1) speaks.

The call of Christ does not automatically mean that all have the ability to hear or respond. Again, the Romans passage and even in the Gospels there is indication of the difference between the ability to hear and respond of the flesh and of the Spirit. Luke 8:13, and John 12:36 - 43 each give examples of human innate inability and the reason why.

That is the point. There is the fleshly faith that may respond only as the flesh could and it is totally inadequate to that which is required and supplied by Christ.

That there are some who appeal to the faith of the flesh as if it had / has some ability to attain to the righteousness of God does not conform the Scriptures into agreement. That there are examples in the Scriptures of expressions of human faith, even that which may imitate the true faith (as a child) serves only as example of that which ultimately fails (as all human effort did, does, and will) and particularly shown in the parable of Luke 8.

The entire discussion is a continuation from Romans 7:
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And here is where you and I will not agree.

For you would place the human ability as able to attain to the righteouness of God, and I do not.

The believer is a "New" creature created in Christ Jesus, and that includes every aspect including faith.

The body will pass and the completed "New" will have absolutely nothing of this world, absolutely nothing.

But in some scheme in which human innate ability would hold, there would then have something of this world entering the New Heaven and New Earth.

That just can't happen, or there would by default be sin entering that wonderful estate.

 

Hebrews 12:2
The word "author" in this verse means "pioneer" or "preeminent example."
The word "faith" is more like the "path that we follow." It is not speaking of trust or even salvation.
Remember that there were no chapter divisions originally. The author just finished a chapter of "the heroes of the faith, those that lived their lives by faith. And so also should we live our lives by faith, having Christ as our preeminent example.

(Darby) looking stedfastly on Jesus the leader and completer of faith: who, in view of the joy lying before him, endured the cross, having despised the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Faith is faith. It is the object of faith that is important. A human must be able to put his faith in God, for he doesn't put God's faith in God. That is a ridiculous concept. Thus God does not give His own faith back to the person so he can return it to him in kind. No, rather God demands of mankind that he accept the gift of salvation with his own faith freely. Man shall not be coerced into salvation..

And that is exactly how an unsaved man must come to Christ--by faith, as a child, simply, as a sinner, repentantly, humbly, etc. Does God change the man before salvation or after salvation?
If you are saying that God gives faith and thus is changing him before salvation then that is salvation by works. No, rather he must come to God, and then God will save him through Christ and then change will become. Change cannot begin until a person is saved.

Cain rebelled against God. He disobeyed God. He did not offer any sacrifice in faith.
In salvation one must by faith accept God's gift of salvation.
Why did Christ throughout his ministry say to those he healed:
"According to your faith..." He used the expression over and over. He healed according to their faith, not His faith or God's faith, but their faith.

Of course it is never rejected.
1. Christ never rejects those that comes to him.
2. It is the faith of a believer that is being spoken of . We believe in eternal security. If he is the author and finisher of our faith, how then can he reject one's faith, unless you believe you can lose your salvation. That verse is directed to the saved.

Christ never put any condition on those who came to him.
"come unto me" he said. He did not say: "Come unto me, but only if..." Let's not add to the scriptures.
Anyone can come to Christ, and as Christ said--they can come "freely."

That is speaking of the Christian life. If the object of one's faith is Christ that won't happen, will it?
When Saul was unsaved but Christ met him on the road, Christ became the object of his attention, his faith, his focus, and thus his Lord and Messiah--immediately.
"Lord what will you have me to do," he said. However, the focus, attention, and the object of the faith of many believers is the world and not Christ. They are too caught up in their technology, their cars, their family, their work, and everything else in the world that takes their eyes off Christ and what He demands of them.
--That is what that passage is speaking about. "The love of the world...is not the love of the Father."

Abraham was not justified by works. Righteousness was imputed unto him by faith, that is because of his faith; not because of any faith that God gave him.

Four soils; four groups. The fourth one produces fruit. Why? It represents those whose hearts had been changed. Why and how did their hearts become changed? Because they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. That theme runs throughout the entire Bible. The one redemptive theme one finds throughout the entire Bible is "Justification by faith," quoted from the OT at least three times in the NT.

And Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. It was Abraham's faith, not God's.

Where in the NT does it say that God gives faith to the unregenerate? It doesn't. God does not give spiritual gifts nor spiritual fruit to the unregenerate.

If the gift of salvation is not accepted by one's own faith then it cannot be accepted at all.
God offers a gift. He is not going to accept it for you. He reaches out to you. You must accept it for yourself. It is a gift. Take it. Receive it. As many as received him...
He doesn't do it for you.

 

Quite possibly true, mon ami.

Oui Monsieur.

Oui.

I see this that man is dead in transgressions and sins, and therefore he freely chooses to do that which is consistent with an enemy of God. As long as man's spirit is dead, he is bent towards sin and self. It is only after being begotten via the gospel that he can seek God in an earnest fashion.

Spiritual death is separation from God, I will quickly agree. Yet, it is more than just that. When Adam died spiritually, he was cut off from the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life was symbolic of the Christ to come that whosoever eats of that Tree will live forever. We, due to Adam's rebellion, were cut off from this very same tree, too. This Tree(Christ) is the only Source of life our spirit can receive. So yes, we were dead, cut-off from God via our sins, but also dead spiritually.

Oui.

Oui.

What is this, Monsieur? Is this a tablet? If it's refurbished, wouldn't it be a re-TARDIS?

 

Rippon

Thank you for your steady proclamation of the truth of scripture.

Yes...that is a characteristic of those who hate the truth of God....
16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?

17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.

18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.

19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.

20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.
[edited: attack the message, not the messenger]

 

Rippon

Not dealing with real truth leads to novelties...

 

Here is how I see him depicting faith.

--Faith is innate in man.
--Faith is a fruit of the Spirit and no one unregenerate sinner possesses faith...but all men have faith.
--All men have faith....faith comes from hearing the word of God...but all men have faith...even when said faith comes from hearing the word of God.

So if all men have faith, then everybody has a fruit of the Spirit.

This is where those who say 'faith is faith' do err, imo.

They keep saying faith needs an object. Nay. Rather, faith needs a source. If faith is within man, that faith is carnal, such as having faith in your spouse, a chair holding you up, getting from 'point A to point B' &c. Everybody possess a carnal faith. But there is a faith...a saving faith...a faith that is salvation of the soul. That faith is from God, and He bestows this unto them that He loves

 

DHK,

Deleting threads will not let you escape and post such falsehoods
That is not the only criteria for someone going to hell. All such false pronouncements do not make it so....Many reasons are given for those who go into second death.

all such what about questions can see you have missed it, and are not questioning Jesus words.....Not to burst your bubble DHK, but Jesus has not made you His spokesman......so that means that people can question your wrong understandings which are in most of your posts..Cautious

You say;...you believe them don't you??? as if someone who disagrees with your error, somehow must not believe Jesus?????seriouslyDevilish

Denying The facts of what the biblical God has done, then substituting a caricature is not going to get it done....

The bible knows that God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.....some here do not seem to know this God.

The false free will /idol/robot objection again.....

This is to diminish God's perfections...very evil.....Jesus was clear in Jn 6:37-44

he will say that to all who remain in Adam.....

Man centered error.

No...not at all...

All who resist God's grace in this way are reprobates....obviously not sheep.

Many have showed it to you....ye do always resist....

Of course not...He effectually draws them to salvation, gifts to follow

You say this when someone posts truth.....interesting..

Icon has correctly called your off topic posting ...OFF TOPIC

You do not want an answer at all....it destroys nothing when rightly understood
news flash....the five solas were from Calvinists....and are embraced by Cal's

Your evil caricatures are revolting....and profane...repent of this vile posting.