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Does God love everyone?

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Iconoclast

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DHK

The cross is the central point of all history. History before the cross looks toward it, and history after the cross looks back at it. It is the central point of all history.
yes...but this has nothing to do with your theory.
Thus Christ says:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--If they didn't believe on his work on the cross they are damned.
People are already condemned apart from Christ.

Romans 1:20 says "they are without excuse."
Since the fall men are without excuse...this adds nothing here.

This is the ad hominem that a Calvinist answers with when he hears an honest portrayal of his God painted by a non-Cal
.
They speak against you when you speak against God and His truth, ascribing evil to Him....

what to expect when one believes in a God who before eternity creates those whom he is said to love

you deny this truth...showing your hatred of the biblical God revealed truth...

and then deliberately casts straight into Hell for all eternity? How does that in any way glorify God? It doesn't. It makes him the author of evil.
this wicked posting does not belong on a Christian website.
Free-will of man is taught in the Bible.

No where...not in one place,

Was Cain forced to kill Abel. No, he freely chose to do so.
Abel freely chose to worship God. Both were made in the image of God. Within that image is the power to choose between right and wrong.
Confused thoughts ....
God doesn't force his salvation on anyone. He, in his omniscience, knows those who of their own free will, will believe on Him. On that basis they are chosen. It really isn't that difficult to understand
.
We all know what this is....
You err not knowing the scripture.
Roflmao


What lie? I simply stated in so many words that you are a Calvinist that believes in hard determinism.
yes...a lie...
 

Rippon

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God doesn't give a command that man cannot obey.
How Pelagian of you. On the contrary, can people obey the ten commandments? Don't break one of them in your answer.
Jesus showed his compassion for all of Israel, though he knew they would reject him. He prayed for them all without discrimination, which is a demonstration of his love for the entire world, not just the elect.
You are so wrong...again.

Jer. 7:16 : "So do not pray for this people nor ofer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you."
Jer. 11:14 : "Do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them, because I will not listen when they call to me in the time of their distress.'
Jer. 14:11 : "Then the Lord said to me, 'Do not pray for the well-being of this people.'
John 17:9 : "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. Verse 20 :"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message."
 

Rippon

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Struck a nerve did I?
I just called you out. That's all. No commentary written has your absurd conclusions.
Of course there are many Reformed or Calvinistic commentaries, probably more than non-Cal.
For every synergistic one there are perhaps a dozen or more Reformed commentaries.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Walvoord and Zuck)
Believer's Bible Commentary (MacDonald)
and your favorite--the esteemed Dave Hunt.
You didn't cite anything by Hunt. I attended a Hunt conference in the 90s and he couldn't defend his unbiblical positions with me (neither could anyone else there).
MacDonald hurt your cause by saying "they have never been redeemed." It goes against your loopy view "A false teacher is one who denies that the Sovereign Lord has redeemed them."
Any of the above will take the same view which I have espoused to you and express it much better than I have.
No, Walvoord did not take your view that "limited atonement" was the destructive heresy referenced in 2 Peter 2:1.
This is a strong argument for unlimited atonement (the view that Christ died for everyone) and against limited atonement (the view that Christ died only for those whom He would later save).
--Walvoord.
You didn't bother giving a page number. Is the stuff in bold print your words --or Walvoord's?
 
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Rippon

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This is the ad hominem that a Calvinist answers with when he hears an honest portrayal of his God painted by a non-Cal.
All your "Monster-God" garbage should be eliminated not only from your vocabulary --but your heart.
I oppose Calvin; not the Word of God.
Nine tenths of the time or more if you oppose what Calvin teaches you are opposing the Scriptures he so helpfully exegetes.
 

Rippon

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God didn't give me the faith to believe.
Christians here are amazed that you have audacity to say such an evil thing as that.
God increased my faith after I believed. My faith to believe came when I was convinced of the Word that it was true, reliable, and applicable to myself. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Study the Scriptures and find out where faith comes from.
It comes from God --not your mythical innate faith. But you believe you made your "decision" all by your lonesome --God was not involved. Oh, he may have been on the sidelines listening but he certainly did not want to impose on you. Your faith surely must be attributed to your superior wisdom and perception. After all, you have insisted that's how somone can come to Christ.
 

Rippon

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Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
--I am not sure why you posted this verse.
Philippians 1:29 : "For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him."
Here is the teaching of Paul.
Salvation most of all is a privilege. It is a privilege to be saved; a privilege to be a child of God; a privilege to be a part of the bride, etc.

You believed on Christ. That was a privilege that you had that resulted in salvation.
Now, it is your privilege to suffer for him. Not only to believe, but also to suffer for his sake.
This "privilege" business is not in the text. You have inserted it. God grants --gives faith to certain ones according to His good pleasure.
 

Internet Theologian

Well-Known Member
DHK,
Deleting threads will not let you escape and post such falsehoodso_O

all such what about questions can see you have missed it, and are not questioning Jesus words.....Not to burst your bubble DHK, but Jesus has not made you His spokesman......so that means that people can question your wrong understandings which are in most of your posts..Cautious

You say;...you believe them don't you??? as if someone who disagrees with your error, somehow must not believe Jesus?????seriouslyDevilish

Your evil caricatures are revolting....and profane...repent of this vile posting.

Agreed with all you said and the bold is duly noted. Thumbsup
 

Internet Theologian

Well-Known Member
Christians here are amazed that you have audacity to say such an evil thing as that.

It comes from God --not your mythical innate faith. But you believe you made your "decision" all by your lonesome --God was not involved. Oh, he may have been on the sidelines listening but he certainly did not want to impose on you. Your faith surely must be attributed to your superior wisdom and perception. After all, you have insisted that's how somone can come to Christ.
Truth. Saddening.
 

Internet Theologian

Well-Known Member
What else did you suggest.
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
--I am not sure why you posted this verse. If only you could apply the truth of it in your own life!

I know why I posted it, because belief is granted by God, not innate in man, and in this post you call me unsaved, a regular practice of yours and you do so trying to be covert and burying it in the mids of a long winded diatribe.
 

SovereignGrace

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I know why I posted it, because belief is granted by God, not innate in man, and in this post you call me unsaved, a regular practice of yours and you do so trying to be covert and burying it in the mids of a long winded diatribe.
Yeah, he is Snidley Whiplash. He questions our salvation all the time on here. I am praying that Bro. Santha is taking notice of his underhanded tactics.

Belief resonates from God-given faith, a believing unto the saving of the soul. This God-given faith He richly bestows upon them that He loves.
 
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Internet Theologian

Well-Known Member
Yeah, he is Sidley Whiplash. He questions our salvation all the time on here. I am praying that Bro. Santa is taking notice of his underhanded tactics.

Belief resonates from God-given faith, a believing unto the saving of the soul. This God-given faith He richly bestows upon them that He loves.

Snidley Whiplash

Santha

lol!!!!!! :p
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
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Rippon, you are confusing.

You post

I do not believe that God has loved those who are deservedly condemned to Hell for their sins.

Now I disagree, and have shown why I disagree. That you don't agree with my disagreement does not make by default your disagreement the correct view any more than your disagreeableness makes mine the correct view.

But then you say:

All of us deserve to spend eternity in Perdition for our sins.

So, you are saying, that God doesn't love us, but will save us anyway? That isn't following the Scriptures.

For the Scripture principle (Romans 5) is that God proved His love through giving Christ while we were still sinful. Now, that would place the WE as all who were/are sinful and not to a subset of the whole.

Therefore, when you acknowledge that "All of us deserve..." then it must follow that God Love all and that some of the all believe and others who do not believe are condemned already.

But God, in His mercy has reserved for Himself those who will be with Him for eternity in glory instead. You constantly cast aspersions on the character of God. He is not the Author of evil. You are evil to say such a thing.God receives glory in the death of the wicked and the everlasting life of the vessels of mercy.

You were doing good until you start with the critical remarks about the character of another.

There is no doubt that "God, in His mercy has reserved for Himself those who will be with Him for eternity."

That is the statement of Christ, "All the Father gives me will come to me...."
 

agedman

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Many reasons are given for those who go into second death.

Really? Do those condemned, as the statements of John 3 and Revelation 21 indicate, are not committed to the flames based upon a single item or lack?

What condemns one to the flames if it is not unbelief?

I realize that some consider that sins condemn one to hell, and those that believe have their sins covered. They take the atonement as limited only to those whose names are written in the lambs book of life.

However, John's writing places the blood as for all, and those who believe are not condemned. That the limit of atonement is not a lack in the blood, but a lack of human belief.


Icon,
It would seem that many of those who embrace limited atonement, have misplaced the limit upon that which cannot be limited, and yet not recognized the limit is what has always limited it throughout Scriptures.

For example in the OT, the sacrifices were daily offered, however, the people had to bring the offering and the offering was brought in obedience and more often (imo) belief in the law.

However, there was that offering that was not brought by the public, but by the high priest. It is that example of offering one offered for all the people without regard to their belief or unbelief.

Our Father brought the offering to the Cross, just as the Highest priest would bring the offering to the temple. Such offering was for all, and not conditioned upon the belief or unbelief, but given for all.

So, the limit of atonement is not a matter of weakness in the blood, but weakness in the human belief system.

That makes the mercy and grace of God far more effectual in the call, and far more directly personal in the application.

That God, so rich in mercy and grace, would look upon me and select of all so much better one who is so unworthy is beyond my ability to comprehend.
 

Rippon

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Rippon, you are confusing.
I will attempt to be clear. Soory for being murky. All of humanity stands guilty before God. Each and every one of us deserves eternal punishment. God, out of His mercy has determined to save certain ones. The rest are condemned to Perdition. All of those have been foreordained to that end --destruction.


You were doing good until you start with the critical remarks about the character of another.
Are you blind? DHK was besmirching the character of God! Talk about critical remarks about the character of Another!
There is no doubt that "God, in His mercy has reserved for Himself those who will be with Him for eternity."
Good --it is perfectly biblical.
That is the statement of Christ, "All the Father gives me will come to me...."
All that the Father gives to Jesus will spend eternity in Glory with Jesus.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
For every synergistic one there are perhaps a dozen or more Reformed commentaries.
I don't keep count.
You didn't cite anything by Hunt. I attended a Hunt conference in the 90s and he couldn't defend his unbiblical positions with me (neither could anyone else there).
I usually get mocked when quoting Hunt (or at least it is Hunt that is mocked). His book is "What Love is This, Calvin’s Misrepresentation of God." The 18th chapter is all about Limited Atonement and one section is devoted to how this doctrine alone is controversial even among Calvinists. I didn't quote him because it goes without saying that most here either dismiss him outrightly or say that he is too extreme or biased.
MacDonald hurt your cause by saying "they have never been redeemed." It goes against your loopy view "A false teacher is one who denies that the Sovereign Lord has redeemed them."
MacDonald succinctly states my view. You are misstating him by only partially quoting him.
Look again:

He did not redeem the whole world. While His work was sufficient for the redemption of all mankind, it is only effective for those who repent, believe, and accept Him.

His work is sufficient for all the world. IOW he died for all the world (1Jn.2:2). The only ones redeemed are the ones that believed on him. That is what I have always believed.
No, Walvoord did not take your view that "limited atonement" was the destructive heresy referenced in 2 Peter 2:1.
You didn't bother giving a page number. Is the stuff in bold print your words --or Walvoord's?
--When you quote Barnes or Matthew-Henry (whether from the Internet or software) do you give the page number? No. I told you plainly before I quoted him that I was quoting from his Bible Knowledge Commentary. Since he is the primary editor I simply use his name though I realize there are other contributing editors. My software edition does not give the names of those other editors. It is the Bible Knowledge Commentary that I am quoting from.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
How Pelagian of you. On the contrary, can people obey the ten commandments? Don't break one of them in your answer.
First Christ has nailed the Law to the cross. We are no longer under the law. He has fulfilled the law; we are under grace. No man can keep the law.
However, Christ did say:
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
--Note the verse says "My commandments," and not the law of Moses, which you referred to.
Yes, we can keep His commandments, which are not grievous.

You are so wrong...again.

Jer. 7:16 : "So do not pray for this people nor ofer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you."
Jer. 11:14 : "Do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them, because I will not listen when they call to me in the time of their distress.'
Jer. 14:11 : "Then the Lord said to me, 'Do not pray for the well-being of this people.'
John 17:9 : "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. Verse 20 :"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message."
This post or response of yours needs half a dozen "funny" responses. You do make me laugh here.
Realize what I said and what you are responding to:

I said Jesus (referring to his earthly ministry) had compassion on Israel.
[He wept over Jerusalem; he healed them; cast out demons, etc.]

And then you respond with OT scripture!! Jeremiah lived more than 600 years before Christ walked this earth. What has that got to do with Jesus having compassion on Israel? That is a funny answer!
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Here is how I see him depicting faith.

--Faith is innate in man.
True. Do you have faith in your wife. It is the object of faith that is important.
--Faith is a fruit of the Spirit and no one unregenerate sinner possesses faith...but all men have faith.
All men do not have spiritual faith. We are not speaking of the trust you put in your wife. Who do you trust for salvation? Your wife or Christ. All faith has an object. In regards to salvation what is the object of your faith?
--All men have faith....faith comes from hearing the word of God...but all men have faith...even when said faith comes from hearing the word of God.
All men have faith; Jesus used children as an example of little ones possessing faith.
Faith is confidence. The more you attack me the less confidence I have in you. The less you display the fruit of the Spirit, the less confidence I have in you (look at your signature line). You are not giving me much hope to put any or much faith in you. Why should I trust you? You see faith develops through a relationship or knowledge.
In relationship to the gospel, the more the unsaved hears the gospel the more he will understand it and the more he will be convicted that it is true. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (in reference to salvation). The difference here is that the promises of God are always true and faithful; man is not.
So if all men have faith, then everybody has a fruit of the Spirit.
All men have faith, but not in God; only those men who have faith in Christ will have the fruit of the Spirit, and then only if they are not acting carnally. Many who post carnally on this board do not display the fruit of the Spirit do they?
This is where those who say 'faith is faith' do err, imo.
Faith is faith. It is the object of your faith that is so important. After you put your faith in Christ, then Christ changes you. It is the same with love isn't it. Even the unsaved has love. But then there is a change in that love after one is saved. The same with faith.

They keep saying faith needs an object. Nay. Rather, faith needs a source.
If it doesn't need an object you are not saved. The object of one's faith must be Christ in order for one to be saved. "Put your trust in Christ," Believe on Him.
If faith is within man, that faith is carnal, such as having faith in your spouse, a chair holding you up, getting from 'point A to point B' &c. Everybody possess a carnal faith. But there is a faith...a saving faith...a faith that is salvation of the soul. That faith is from God, and He bestows this unto them that He loves
The Bible doesn't use the term saving faith. Only Christ can save! He offers you the gift of salvation. It is salvation that is the gift. It must be accepted by faith.
 

Internet Theologian

Well-Known Member
Are you blind? DHK was besmirching the character of God! Talk about critical remarks about the character of Another!

This is what I have been saying all along, agedman purposefully and willfully overlooks the actions of 'the mod' and only comes in to malign those who defend themselves against his behaviors. It's hypocritical on his part.
 
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