Does God love everyone?

[agedman]

DHK, we too take the scriptures at face value. But 'world' rarely, if ever, means everybody who ever lived.

I suppose there are those that would teach this and consider it what the Scriptures teach. However, it remains that that thinking is actually not supported throughout scriptures.

It is more often that the word the translators placed in the Scriptures may actually be rendered the whole sphere or even the whole universe, than it is used as signifying a sub set of the whole.

What some of the reformed have done is attempt to support the extreme of their view by publicizing that the world doesn't include anyone but the subset, and that is false teaching.

That the thinking continues to be perpetuated is (imo) rather sad because there is great neglect to the wonderful authority of God by the teaching that "world" is a subset and not the whole.

God is the Sovereign who selects from the whole those in particular that He will claim as His and that those might be saved. (John 3:17)

Look at this statement of 2 Thessalonians 2:

Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
​

It isn't that they have not had the same blood of Christ shed, it is that "they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved."

This is EXACTLY the statements of the turning from the light given throughout the writing of the John.

World almost always means the whole. Not in every use, but clearly in nearly every use.

Furthermore, the WORKS (good and bad) shown to the lost at the judgment do not condemn; rather, one is condemned because the lack of their name recorded in the book of life condemns them.

That is the presentation of Scripture.

It is no violation of the sovereignty of God to teach God is light and love to the whole, but most of humankind would rather embrace darkness and untruth. Therefore, those are condemned, already.

 

[agedman]

Now, if God was reconciling the world(everybody who has ever lived) to Himself in the form of a Man(Christ), then everybody who has ever lived, God is not counting their sins unto them. Then how can they then be judged as sinners and being cast into hell? God did not count their sins unto them, seeing God reconciled them through Christ.

Again, look at the statement of the Revelation.

Humankind are NOT sent to the lake of fire but for a single reason.

Their name is not recorded in the book of life.

Look at the statement of John.

Humankind are sent to the lake of fire for a single reason.

Their lack of belief.

The fact that ALL have sinned and come short of God's glory is not diminished, nor is the wages of sin being death, for all die and after that is the judgment.

But there is a single book standing as determination of the destiny to humankind, not the "books."

 

[DHK]

You are perpetually wrong DHK. I have taken the time to explain this over and over to you but it has either gone over your head or you are being obstinate --probably the latter.

Take a gander at this AGAIN:

John 11:51 : Jesus // //////////////////////////////////1 John 2:2 : He is
_________would die for///////////////_______________the atoning sacrifice
_________the Jewish nation//////////////////__________for our sins
_____and not only for that nation////////////////////////////////and not only for ours
_____but also/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////but also
_____for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one//for the sins of the whole world

John is the other of both books. He is speaking of the same subject using the same language. Jesus did not for the sins of the Jews alone, but for the sins of His children among the Gentiles scattered around the world.

See Rev. 5:11;7:9; and 14:4 for confirmation

Your post makes no sense at all.
First, all of John's writings were written between 90-98 A.D.
Second, he was not writing with the Jews in mind, but rather with the world in mind. The Jews had been dispersed by then, and the city of Jerusalem destroyed, as well as the Temple. He was writing for the world in general. No need to mention the Jews.
Thus his atoning sacrifice is exactly who John said it was for, "not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world. There is no reason not to take the Bible literally.

His death was for all.
Otherwise Scripture like John 5:24 would make no sense:
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me...
He makes no qualification, no exception clauses. The question is: Why do you?
It is as if the Calvinists enjoy re-writing the Word of God! Do they?

 

[DHK]

Scripture says that God is love. It is central in Scripture. But it doesn't say it constitutes the "very essence of God." The holiness of God is parapmount for instance. He is the thrice holy God. He has many attributes. I think one is Divine hatred of some individuals.

Psalms
5:5 : You hate all who do wrong
5:6 : The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
11:5 : but the wicked, those who love violence he hates with a passion.
53:5 : for God despised them.

God certainly does not love all people as Scripture amply demonstrates.

Have you ever heard of an "imprecatory psalm"? Do you know what one is?

So let's start here. These are prayers of the OT. OT saints prayed this way for a reason.
Let me ask you: Do you pray like this? Why or why not? Do we not have the OT for our example?

 

[DHK]

DHK, we too take the scriptures at face value. But 'world' rarely, if ever, means everybody who ever lived. There is the world, as in earth, that God hung upon nothing[Job 26:7] Then there is the 'world' in regards to the lost. So if there is a 'world' in regards to unbelievers, there also must be a 'world' of believers.

Pure Calvinistic drivel. You don't want to interpret the "world" literally because of Calvinistic biased presuppositions. You precious Calvinism won't allow you to do so.

Now, what IT touched upon was quite good. If Christ had not come into this world, everybody, including you and I, would be justly condemned.

Fallacious reasoning based on the fallacious premises of Calvinism.
It contradicts the words of Jesus inferring that he has lied and calls into question his integrity.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
--According to you Christ lied. Either what he said is true or false. Anyone who hears his word (the Word of God) and believes in him has everlasting life. Why deny this basic truth? That doesn't mean all will be saved. For many will hear him and not believe.

The sentence of death(condemnation) was already upon us. So you are correct in saying people are condemned by denying Christ, yet, they were already condemned to begin with. If God withholds His grace from some, He has done them no harm, no injustice. They were already condemned in Adam to begin with.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
--Human rationalization about questions that you have no answer for only calls into question the integrity of Christ and his words inferring that He has lied. It is like SG saying: "My reasoning trumps Christ's words, and therefore I am right" just because you cannot understand the thoughts of God. Why not leave those who are outside of Christ in God's hands instead of your hands. I trust God, not you.

Look at how God instructed Moses to speak to Pharaoh. Not once did He tell Moses to give them a message of reconciliation. It was ‘Let My people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the wilderness.’[Ex. 5:1] 'Let My people go, so that they may worship me in the wilderness.'[Ex. 7:16]

And so?? This speaks to dispensationalism how God works in different ways in different time periods. Today he has given us a message of reconciliation, and as ambassadors of Christ we are to go into all the world with that message that the unsaved might be reconciled to God. That is what the Bible teaches.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Then when David and Israel fought against Goliath and the Philistines, there was never a message of reconciliation given to them, either.

--A different dispensation. OT methods were different than the methods Christ has given us.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[DHK]

DHK, in another response to you accusing us of not taking the scriptures at face value, I will respond for myself. I agree with every word of God's holy writ. Now, I will be the first to tell you I do not have an answer for every question you ask me, nor do I have an answer for many verses I have read. But I am thankful for what knowledge He has bestowed unto moi.

Now, I want to focus on some of the verses you love to support your view.

--"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”[Matt. 1:21]

Now, if all of the world, everybody who ever lived were God's people, taken as literal, then no one goes to hell. It says He will save, not He might if they do 'this', but He will save them from their sins.

CONTEXT
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
From A.T. Robertson:

Thou shalt call his name Jesus (Kalesies to onoma autou Iêsoun). The rabbis named six whose names were given before birth: "Isaac, Ishmael, Moses, Solomon, Josiah, and the name of the Messiah, whom may the Holy One, blessed be His name, bring in our day." The angel puts it up to Joseph as the putative father to name the child. "Jesus is the same as Joshua, a contraction of Jehoshuah (Nu 13:16; 1Ch 7:27), signifying in Hebrew, 'Jehovah is helper,' or 'Help of Jehovah'" (Broadus). So Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua (Heb 4:8). He is another Joshua to lead the true people of God into the Promised Land. The name itself was common enough as Josephus shows. Jehovah is Salvation as seen in Joshua for the Hebrews and in Jesus for all believers. "The meaning of the name, therefore, finds expression in the title Saviour applied to our Lord (Lu 1:47; 2:11; Joh 4:42)" (Vincent). He will save (sôsei) his people from their sins and so be their Saviour (Sôtêr). He will be prophet, priest, and king, but "Saviour" sums it all up in one word. The explanation is carried out in the promise, "for he is the one who (autos) will save (sôsei with a play on the name Jesus) his people from their sins." Paul will later explain that by the covenant people, the children of promise, God means the spiritual Israel, all who believe whether Jews or Gentiles. This wonderful word touches the very heart of the mission and message of the Messiah. Jesus himself will show that the kingdom of heaven includes all those and only those who have the reign of God in their hearts and lives

His people are all those in the world who have believed in him.

--"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."[2 Cor. 5:19]

Now, if God is reconciling the world to Himself through Christ, how does He do this? Via the gospel. Now, you admitted to me once that not everybody has heard the gospel and that was the need of the gospel being proclaimed(and I wholeheartedly agree). In John 6:45, Jesus said "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me[/u]." So it takes the proclamation of the gospel to save sinners from their sins. So if everybody without exception has not heard the gospel(as you concurred to me), then we can now tackle..

There is no excuse in our time for everyone not to hear the gospel. If they don't their blood will be on our hands. I truly believe that. We have the means, the opportunity, the technology, the manpower, etc., to reach all the world in our generation. Then, why don't we? Perhaps it is because: in our generation Christians in general are too complacent. Jesus said: "When I come will I find faith"? What do you think he meant?

--And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."[John 12:32]

So, if not everybody has heard the gospel, as you readily admitted to me, then how can they be drawn, if 'all' means 'everybody without exception'? As Apostle Paul wrote, How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[Rom. 10:14] So without the gospel being preached unto them, they can not be saved. Without the gospel being proclaimed unto them, Christ will not draw them.

I will show you more biblical proof later, mon ami.

Note in John 12:32 the word "men" is in italics indicating that it is not in the original.
MacDonald says:
the correct explanation is that the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus resulted in all kinds of people being drawn to Him. It does not mean all people without exception, but people from every nation, tribe, and language.

Walvoord, also says something very similar:
Jesus’ words, When I am lifted up from the earth, refer not to His Ascension but to His crucifixion (cf. Joh_3:14; Joh_8:28). He knew how He would die — by being “lifted up” on a cross. Jews, however, normally stoned those they considered worthy of death (cf. Stephen’s death, Act_7:58-60).
Jesus said that at the cross He would draw all men to Himself. He did not mean everybody will be saved for He made it clear that some will be lost (Joh_5:28-29). If the drawing by the Son is the same as that of the Father (Joh_6:44), it means He will draw indiscriminately. Those saved will include not only Jews, but also those from every tribe, language, people, and nation (Rev_5:9; cf. Joh_10:16; Joh_11:52).

 

[agedman]

There is another matter about the love of God that has not occurred that I recall in this long thread.


It is the matter of excuse.

I would like to present what I consider a part of human nature that (imo) is going to be evident in the attitude at the last judgment of the heathen unregenerate.

That is, the excuse the heathen most often bring when confronted with the things of Christ. We see a bit of this in the Scriptures concerning those invited to the wedding feast and excuse themselves from attending.

Those of us who have often been engaged in witnessing of the Savior have no doubt engaged that same characteristic about the heathen. They are prone to point to the failures of believers and excuse their own behavior.

So, at that great and terrible final judgment of humankind will the heathen not continue to make excuse? Why else would the books be opened but to show that time and again the unregenerate purposely turns from the light and gleefully joins in darkness.

But what of Love? Will any heathen be able to claim that God did not offer them love? Will there not be one valid claim that the unregenerate will be able to grab upon that God will not be abundantly able to show in the books that such claim is not valid?

God justly demonstrates that He loved, He gave light, He presented truth, to every single person who will abide forever in that lake of fire. For if He could not, then there would not be proof of the just judgment as demonstrated in the Revelation.

Certainly it is well understood that Romans states:

“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.”​

Is not one of His “invisible attributes” and His “divine nature” that is “clearly seen” shown by what He has made, the sufficiency and the sustaining?

Is not one of those attributes and nature, Love?

Will any be able to cry out that God did not love them and shed His blood for them?

NOT ONE!

Each will have absolutely no excuse or supposed claim to make, for the "books" will show most evidently Romans correct.

 

[JonC]

God hates, detests, loathes and abominates certain ones. There's no way around this fact.

At first glance I read "God hates dentists" and I was just about to agree.

In all the Scriptures I quoted there is no such distinction you have made i.e. "God hates the sin but loves the sinner." It's a common sentiment --but nontheless cannot be supported by Scripture.

I agree. Scripture does not make that distinction (separating the sin from the sinner).


Sent from my TARDIS

 

[agedman]

At first glance I read "Gog hates dentists" and I was just about to agree.

I agree. Scripture does not make that distinction (separating the sin from the sinner).


Sent from my TARDIS

I got a chuckle from "separating the sin from the sinner."

Is there a Scripture that states God separates any sin from a sinner?

Isaiah (59) tells of sin separating one from God:

"But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,
And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear."​

But, that isn't the statement you made.

The question then is, does God ever "separate sin from the sinner?"

Or, does God choose to not remember them as the result of the blood shed by Christ as the propitiation?

Hmmmm.....

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

They were not using the Scriptures to speculate on philosophical questions they had no answer to.
That is what you have been doing, and that is where you stumble. You claim to have answers you don't.

Upon reflecting on this I wonder....Why does DHK struggle so' mightily and not welcome what we all see clearly?
Not only do we have answers but we have offered them to you. Carnal philosophy is not my thing....ask Benjamin.
Having been drawn to God savingly, the Spirit continues His work of ;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Those are nice verses but they have nothing to do with the questions that were posed-

You keep saying things like this, over and over. Do you realize you are the only one who struggles like this? The answers given were given in simple form and should have been easily understood.



-those philosophical questions that were originally posited by you because you didn't want to take Christ at his word (John 14:6). But what about...., you said, indirectly questioning the integrity of Christ.

This is only taking place in your mind. You do this quite often......"indirectly"????? How about you show this? DIRECTLY

You falsely accuse us and say....Indirectly, when not one of us has done any of this?????

Again.....post one example of what you claim....where I said any such thing...DIRECTLY. YOU CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS A FALSEHOOD.

Do any of those verses promise you that you will have the same knowledge God has, or that you will be omniscient??

This is quite Odd. No one can even follow your train of thought!!!! Are you OK? Are you suffering from some ailment that is affecting you? how else can we explain this constant made up attacks, that are off topic once again

You have a hard time answering personal and difficult questions.

I do not have a hard time doing either but that is not theOP is it?

Youot hold up on the issue.as you cannot couldn't answer them then, and you can't now.

I and others have answered you everytime. You are losing your composure ?

No, not all things are possible.
It is impossible for God to lie.
It is impossible for God to do that which is against His nature.

And what I said was this:
How can a finite mind understand the infinite mind of the incomprehensible Almighty Eternal Godhead? We can't. It is impossible.
Not even with God is this possible. The finite mind cannot understand the infinite God.

You seem to be in unbelief.....Maybe tomorrow will be better?

Your understanding is badly lacking. You won't even answer basic questions concerning salvation.

Other people seem to like what I post. You do not....

 

[DHK]

I suppose there are those that would teach this and consider it what the Scriptures teach. However, it remains that that thinking is actually not supported throughout scriptures.

It is more often that the word the translators placed in the Scriptures may actually be rendered the whole sphere or even the whole universe, than it is used as signifying a sub set of the whole.

What some of the reformed have done is attempt to support the extreme of their view by publicizing that the world doesn't include anyone but the subset, and that is false teaching.

That the thinking continues to be perpetuated is (imo) rather sad because there is great neglect to the wonderful authority of God by the teaching that "world" is a subset and not the whole.

God is the Sovereign who selects from the whole those in particular that He will claim as His and that those might be saved. (John 3:17)

Look at this statement of 2 Thessalonians 2:

Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
​

It isn't that they have not had the same blood of Christ shed, it is that "they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved."

This is EXACTLY the statements of the turning from the light given throughout the writing of the John.

World almost always means the whole. Not in every use, but clearly in nearly every use.

Furthermore, the WORKS (good and bad) shown to the lost at the judgment do not condemn; rather, one is condemned because the lack of their name recorded in the book of life condemns them.

That is the presentation of Scripture.

It is no violation of the sovereignty of God to teach God is light and love to the whole, but most of humankind would rather embrace darkness and untruth. Therefore, those are condemned, already.

This is a great passage of Scripture. To those who reject dispensationalism it is often confusing.

That lawless one shall appear. That is the antichrist. I won't be hear when that happens. The rapture takes place first. Glory!
Eventually the Lord will slay him. That will happen seven years later after the Tribulation is finished.
The activity of the Antichrist is in accord with Satan and he does all kinds of signs, wonders and even "miracles."
In fact "all the world will go after him" because they will be deceived, deceived into thinking he is god.
God will send a strong delusion upon all that are in the world, that they should believe this lie that they all should be damned. (KJV). And they will. This is the time of judgment. The time of grace has passed.
God will now pour out his wrath on the world and those living in it for they have had their chance to trust Christ and have missed it. Now they are actively following the very one that opposes Christ.

But Christ will come at the end of this time period, save the Jews, and the Millennial Kingdom will begin.
--The place to start is to accept the dispensational viewpoint.
The whole world indeed will be damned, as agedman has pointed out.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
Upon reflecting on this I wonder....Why does DHK struggle so' mightily and not welcome what we all see clearly?
Not only do we have answers but we have offered them to you. Carnal philosophy is not my thing....ask Benjamin.
Having been drawn to God savingly, the Spirit continues His work of ;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

I am not stumbling on anything. I don't agree with your Calvinism and you can't understand why. I ask you straightforward questions and you can't answer them.
Questions like:
Do you believe in sola fide, a Reformed doctrine. But you, for some reason, can't answer that, or at least won't.
This thread is about God's love for all, everyone. But you don't want to apply that on a personal basis.
Jesus is God, a God of love. He so loved the world, all the world. There is the point of discussion.
That being said, did he love you before you were saved? How do you know? How do you know that you are one of the elect now?
In the same manner when God says he hates certain people as Rippon says he does, using such scripture out of context:
Psalms
5:5 : You hate all who do wrong
5:6 : The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
11:5 : but the wicked, those who love violence he hates with a passion.
53:5 : for God despised them.

Then do you conclude that these individuals, who God supposedly hates, can never be saved because they are objects of his wrath and can never be objects of his love--just like you were once an object of his wrath??
But how do you know for sure that you are an object of his love, whereas the entire LBGT group isn't?
Does God love them?
I don't struggle Icon; you do.

You keep saying things like this, over and over. Do you realize you are the only one who struggles like this? The answers given were given in simple form and should have been easily understood.

When you quote or state philosophical questions that are not answered directly by the Bible then that is what they are. Your answers are the answers of a vain imagination for the Bible is silent. Where the Bible is silent we must be silent. Therefore I will repeat myself over and over again until these truths sink through.
It is not me who struggles.

-those philosophical questions that were originally posited by you because you didn't want to take Christ at his word (John 14:6). But what about...., you said, indirectly questioning the integrity of Christ.

Anyone who questions the ability of Christ to save anyone is questioning the integrity of Christ. And that is what you have done!
You keep saying: What about....What about...
So Christ cannot saved in your opinion those that "have never heard," but you don't know who those are, and why Christ is so powerless to do that which he said he could do. You question both his power and his integrity. Amazing!

This is only taking place in your mind. You do this quite often......"indirectly"????? How about you show this? DIRECTLY

Note well, I have just shown you directly how you question the integrity of God. You are in denial of the power and authority of Christ.

You falsely accuse us and say....Indirectly, when not one of us has done any of this?????

Again.....post one example of what you claim....where I said any such thing...DIRECTLY. YOU CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS A FALSEHOOD.

You don't have to say it. You outright question God's power by your statements:
What about those that never hear? That is a question of doubt--doubting God's promises.
It is no different than Satan's statement to Eve: "Hath God said..."

This is quite Odd. No one can even follow your train of thought!!!! Are you OK? Are you suffering from some ailment that is affecting you? how else can we explain this constant made up attacks, that are off topic once again

You answer with ad hominems when you can't answer scripture. It is arrogant for you to put yourself on the same plane as God thinking that God has revealed all things to you. He hasn't.

I do not have a hard time doing either but that is not theOP is it?

Check 2Tim.3:16,17
All Scripture is inspired...
The scripture is inspired and it is profitable and in verse 17 it is to make one fully equipped (thoroughly furnished) to do God's work. Unless one is able to "personalize" the scripture, "apply" it to oneself, then it becomes rather useless. It is just head knowledge, like the Muslim I read of who had memorized the entire NT but yet remained a Muslim. What good was the Scripture to him?
So, yes, the scripture applies to you. It can get personal. Why not?
Does personal testimony about the love of God not relate to the OP? Of course it relates to the OP!

I and others have answered you everytime. You are losing your composure ?

Sorry, you are not telling the truth here. Still referring back to those more personal type questions, you abhor answering, you rarely if ever answer. You avoid them like the plague. Why do you think I ask you continually about "sola fide"? I don't get an answer.
Have you lost your composure?

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

I am not stumbling on anything

The people reading think otherwise....

. I don't agree with your Calvinism and you can't understand why

No....I know why!

. I ask you straightforward questions and you can't answer them.
Questions like:

I have explained to you many times.....you do not really want an answer....

Do you believe in sola fide, a Reformed doctrine. But you, for some reason, can't answer that, or at least won't.

it is off topicCautious

This thread is about God's love for all, everyone. But you don't want to apply that on a personal basis.

The question is about His love for those who eventually perish. His love for those in covenant with him , is eternal.

Jesus is God, a God of love. He so loved the world, all the world. There is the point of discussion.

He has His people everywhere in the world.

That being said, did he love you before you were saved?

We can be certain that Jesus set His eternal love on the Sheep before time was.....it is clear, obvious, and unchanging.

How do you know? How do you know that you are one of the elect now?

these are good questions....but off topicCautious

In the same manner when God says he hates certain people as Rippon says he does, using such scripture out of context:
Psalms
5:5 : You hate all who do wrong
5:6 : The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
11:5 : but the wicked, those who love violence he hates with a passion.
53:5 : for God despised them.

Rippon has offered you truth. he does many times.I like His posts as they offer truth.

Then do you conclude that these individuals, who God supposedly hates, can never be saved because they are objects of his wrath and can never be objects of his love--just like you were once an object of his wrath??

This should not be a puzzle to you at this point, should it?
All outside of Christ are objects of God's wrath abiding over them, That is why 1cor 6 ...says...and .SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU.
Eph 2 says the same....
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God,

But how do you know for sure that you are an object of his love, whereas the entire LBGT group isn't?
Does God love them?

It is the BUT GOD.....that makes the difference......not man.

I don't struggle Icon; you do.

You struggle mightily.....

When you quote or state philosophical questions that are not answered directly by the Bible then that is what they are.

All such questions are answered in the bible.

Your answers are the answers of a vain imagination for the Bible is silent.

Sorry if it is a closed book for you,,,,,the bible speaks-

pray this right now;
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.

Anyone who questions the ability of Christ to save anyone is questioning the integrity of Christ

.

If you find anyone who does that let me know.....I profess a perfect salvation , by a Perfect Saviour. He saves all He intends to save, not one of them is lost,

And that is what you have done!

This sounds like the accusation of satan, rather than the statement of a professed Christian

You keep saying: What about....What about...
So Christ cannot saved in your opinion those that "have never heard," but you don't know who those are, and why Christ is so powerless to do that which he said he could do. You question both his power and his integrity. Amazing!

Have you noticed no one....not one other person comes up with these wild and undisciplined ideas other than you????

Note well, I have just shown you directly how you question the integrity of God.

You are deluded. You have not shown anything I have said directly that comes close to your maniacal ideas
You never will either, because I do not believe or entertain such defeated fragmented thoughts as you express.

You are in denial of the power and authority of Christ.

Not so accuser of the brethren....

You don't have to say it.

If you are going to accuse me of such false blasphemous ideas...you had better be sure I said it directly ...otherwise you once again bear false witness in violation of the 9th commandment.

You outright question God's power by your statements:

Not at all. Your incapacity to grasp gospel basics leads to these frivolous but disturbed accusations.

What about those that never hear?

i know how to answer that....you do not.

That is a question of doubt--doubting God's promises.

No..it is a question that needs clarification which Paul gives directly in Romans 10.

It is no different than Satan's statement to Eve: "Hath God said...

Only to you...no one else says so.

You answer with ad hominems when you can't answer scripture

.

I can always answer with scripture.

It is arrogant for you to put yourself on the same plane as God thinking that God has revealed all things to you. He hasn't.

another lie...

Sorry, you are not telling the truth here. Still referring back to those more personal type questions, you abhor answering, you rarely if ever answer. You avoid them like the plague. Why do you think I ask you continually about "sola fide"? I don't get an answer.
Have you lost your composure?

Not following you off topicCautious

 

[SovereignGrace]

To DHK:

You posted this:

You(sic)precious Calvinism won't allow you to do so.

According to you Christ lied.

--Human rationalization about questions that you have no answer for only calls into question the integrity of Christ and his words inferring that He has lied. It is like SG saying: "My reasoning trumps Christ's words, and therefore I am right" just because you cannot understand the thoughts of God. Why not leave those who are outside of Christ in God's hands instead of your hands. I trust God, not you.

And with this, we're done. I came back and was truly desiring to have a friendly debate with you, but you are unable to do so.

Do not respond to any of my posts, mon ami, you will be on ignore.

 

[Rippon]

Have you ever heard of an "imprecatory psalm"?

Of course. And none of the Scriptures I quoted were from the so-called imprecatory Psalms.
I had even cautioned kyredneck when he listed some verses of an imprecatory Psalm --chapter 139. I have been concentrating on God's Holy Hatred. I don't want people like you to be confused.

 

[kyredneck]

I had even cautioned kyredneck when he listed some verses of an imprecatory Psalm --chapter 140.

Are these "imprecatory"?:

1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto Jehovah, and spake, saying, I will sing unto Jehovah, for he hath triumphed gloriously: The horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.
2 Jehovah is my strength and song, And he is become my salvation: This is my God, and I will praise him; My father`s God, and I will exalt him.
3 Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.
4 Pharaoh`s chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea; And his chosen captains are sunk in the Red Sea. Ex 15

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye saints, and ye apostles, and ye prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her. Rev 18

...and it was Ps 139, not 140.

 

[Rippon]

This thread is about God's love for all, everyone.

No, the subject of the thread is a question :Does God love everyone? The title of the thread is therefore a question --not a statement.

In the same manner when God says he hates certain people as Rippon says he does,

As God's Holy Word states and I affirm.

using such scripture out of context:
Psalms
5:5 : You hate all who do wrong
5:6 : The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
11:5 : but the wicked, those who love violence he hates with a passion.
53:5 : for God despised them.

Do you oppose God's Word DHK? Do you not believe those four verses?

 

[DHK]

Are these "imprecatory"?:

1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto Jehovah, and spake, saying, I will sing unto Jehovah, for he hath triumphed gloriously: The horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.
2 Jehovah is my strength and song, And he is become my salvation: This is my God, and I will praise him; My father`s God, and I will exalt him.
3 Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.
4 Pharaoh`s chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea; And his chosen captains are sunk in the Red Sea. Ex 15

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye saints, and ye apostles, and ye prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her. Rev 18

...and it was Ps 139, not 140.

No, why would they be? They are glorious songs of rejoicing, triumph, and of judgment.
There is no "hatred of God" voiced here.

 

[DHK]

No, the subject of the thread is a question :Does God love everyone? The title of the thread is therefore a question --not a statement.

As God's Holy Word states and I affirm.

Do you oppose God's Word DHK? Do you not believe those four verses?

Let's consider these Psalms.
Psalm 5:5,6:
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Your sight. You hate all doers of iniquity.
Psa 5:6 You shall destroy those who speak lies; Jehovah will despise the bloody and deceitful man. (MKJV)
The foolish will not stand before God; no fool will, for they have rejected God (Psa.14:1)
It is the evil that God hates; an evil person cannot stand before a holy God. This is what the Psalmist expresses.
God will destroy the fool, the one who has rejected Him, the liar, blood-thirsty, deceitful man. We know He will. It is only just. But that is a day to come in the GWT.
Does he hate that man now? Or does he love him?
Of course he loves him and gives him every opportunity (as Christ did with Judas) to be saved.
Taking OT scripture out of context is not ethical, but it may be one of your strong points.

MacArthur states:

Psalm 5 is basically a lament with elements of (1) declarations of innocence and (2) confidence and prayers for protection. David was standing in the presence of the Lord when he put his enemies before his God. His prayers have two major concerns: "Help me and harm them!" Therefore, David releases his respective prayers for divine intervention and imprecation with two rounds of contrasting thought which differentiate the enemies of God from the children of God.

Yes, part of the psalm is an imprecatory psalm contrary to your beliefs.

 

[Rippon]

There is no excuse in our time for everyone not to hear the gospel. If they don't their blood will be on our hands. I truly believe that. We have the means, the opportunity, the technology, the manpower, etc., to reach all the world in our generation.

By the saying the above you are admitting that many have not heard the Gospel or even the name of Jesus in times past as well as today.

Note in John 12:32 the word "men" is in italics indicating that it is not in the original.
MacDonald says:
the correct explanation is that the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus resulted in all kinds of people being drawn to Him. It does not mean all people without exception, but people from every nation, tribe, and language.

Well what do you know. We both agree here with William MacDonald on that particular aspect.

Yes, it does not refer to each and every person without exception --but to everyone without distinction.Of course John chapter 6 needs to be consulted by the very same author when it comes to drawing.