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Featured Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Browner, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    The only thing destroyed was hermeneutics.
     
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  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Taking a group of scriptures and saying it only applies one way to me is tunnel vision... I've heard preachers use it both ways...Suffering with Christ and Eternal Security... Brother Glen
     
  3. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    if a preacher shoves it into a discussion of eternal security, that preacher is either ignorant of the scriptures or dishonest. That's not tunnel vision, that's plain fact.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So you can't answer my questions? Who is the "who" and who is the hireling? Are you part of the house church movement?
     
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  5. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Of course!
    SOON most true believers will be forced to go underground.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    For those of you who do not know the house church movement is an extremist movement that hates pastors or anyone in authority in the church. They hate church buildings or any meeting place not in the home. The groups involved in the official house church movement are not actually churches. They do not function as churches and do not have leadership as churches. They are nothing more than small groups who have Bible studies at best.

    *Note-this is not to be confused with simply holding church services in a home.
     
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the explanation and the heads up but it also bears this question "What is he doing over here?... Recruiting?Sneaky... Brother Glen
     
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  8. Browner

    Browner Member

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    No, just explaining some spiritual Truths.
    I do not recommend that you listen to anything Revvy has to say.
    And he has provided a very recent example of why:
    Believers who start home churches do not "hate" anyone or anything.

    If you are a true believer, you will SOON be forced to go underground
    to escape such "believers" as the Revvy (who will hate you)!
    You will SOON see who the haters are!
    This is a warning to you, which is guaranteed Truth.
    Watch it happen ... and SOON.
     
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I hear what you are saying and you are about as old as I am!... I remember Jim Jones and (The Peoples Temple), David Koresh (The Branch Dividian) and Marvin Applewhite (Hale Boppe)... and being a true believer I won't be lead away with every wind of doctrine because false prophets come and go but the "DANGER" is they lead others away that only wanted to follow the Lord and paid the ultimate price doing it... Brother Glen
     
    #29 tyndale1946, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
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  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well, we're all still waiting for you to explain how obeying Jesus is not practicing righteousness/law. Which Paul EXPLAINS does NOT justify a person unto eternal life, but you declare Paul wrong by declaring a child of God must practice/obey the law/righteousness or else be found unjustified unto eternal life.

    Here, let me refresh your memory of that portion of scripture you pass over in your readings...

    "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal2:16)

    Still waiting for you to destroy Paul's words.....and our understanding...
     
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  11. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Sorry, but I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to you that obeying Jesus' commandments, etc. is NOT what doing good works means! ... Please, you're making a fool of yourself!

    Meanwhile, please enjoy ...
    "In this the children of God and the children of the devil
    are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness
    is not of God …" (1 John 3:10)
     
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You have declared it so many times, but have never explained it. Just saying it is so does not make it so, sorry.

    Paul does not say "good works". Rather "works of the law". You never explained how obeying Jesus' commandments are not "works of the law". Maybe you could start with listing Jesus' commandments and explain how they have nothing to do with obeying the law.
     
    #32 steaver, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  13. Browner

    Browner Member

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    I duz have patience enough to remind thou ...
    Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law, butski to uphold it.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    No - to "fulfill" it. BIG difference.
     
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  15. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Yes, you're correct ... I think He accomplished both.
    He taught the Ten Commandments in the gospels.
    So, where are we with this?
     
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So where are we with this? Waiting for you to explain how obey Jesus' commands is not works of the law....
     
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  17. Browner

    Browner Member

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    We've enjoyed this quickie before ...

    What sayest thou to Jesus oft-mentioned fact that:
    Those who love Him will obey His commandments,
    and the Father will love these people, and etc.

    Do believers who do NOT love Jesus go to heaven?
    And so ditto re: NOT obeying His commandments?

    Bonus coverage:
    Do believers whom Father God does NOT love go to heaven?
     
    #37 Browner, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Those are all good questions, unfortunately they cannot be answered properly until you answer how obeying Jesus' commandments is not doing the works of the law. We still await your explanation.....
     
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  19. Browner

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    My explanation is simply ...
    Either one believes/accepts/obeys Jesus' words, or one doesn't.

    We all enjoy the great blessing of testing, which is our free will.
    Translation: It's your choice!
     
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I agree 100% brother! But this isn't an explanation of the issue you are stuck on. You declared that obeying Jesus' commandments is NOT doing works of the Law. Now you need to explain this, how obeying Jesus' commands is NOT doing works of the Law, for it is YOU who has declared this. Until you deal with this point you are stuck. Anything else you come to understand and believe will have to be based on the truth or error of this point. Remember, you claimed you had reconciled the NT scriptures. This is your opportunity to show us how you have done so...
     
    #40 steaver, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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