Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage

[SovereignGrace]

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
“This verse (28) surely ranks as one of the greatest verses in the New Testament. … If we do not love God and are not called according to His purpose, then the promise of this verse is not for us. … Here (in 29) we see God’s main purpose in working for our good in all things. His ultimate purpose for all of us who believe is that we might be conformed to the likeness of His Son … that is, that we should become like His Son Jesus.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)

Jesus said those who love God will keep His commandments!
“If you love Me, keep My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him … He who does not love Me does not keep My words” (John 14:15-24)

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)
“But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.”
(1 Corinthians 8:3)

Continuing on 6 verses down …

Romans 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
“No one can separate us! Except for sin, there is no other circumstance in this life that can separate believers in Christ from God’s love … there is, in fact, one thing – a thing which God did not create – that certainly can separate them from God’s love. And that one thing is sin. If we continue knowingly in some sin and refuse to repent of it, that sin will most definitely separate us from God’s love and bring upon us God’s terrible wrath and judgment. Before we were Christians, we were separated from God because of sin. We were God’s enemies. Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God. But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will become permanent. Of all the promises in the Bible, the promise of verses 38-39 is one of the greatest. But we must not think about a promise without also thinking about the conditions of that promise. It is good to remember the promises of the Bible, but we must not forget the warnings!”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)

Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures! And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers

“conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17)
“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)
Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes!

The only thing destroyed was hermeneutics.

 

[tyndale1946]

Have you read it? It doesn't say nothing can separate us from God,

It says nothing can separate us from THE LOVE OF God.

Though nothing can separate a believer from God, that is not at all what this passage is about. The context is suffering with Christ. And it's a promise that God is for us, not against us.

He has not left us alone in our suffering , He is orchestrating it. What some mean for evil, God means for good.

Nothing here about eternal security

Taking a group of scriptures and saying it only applies one way to me is tunnel vision... I've heard preachers use it both ways...Suffering with Christ and Eternal Security... Brother Glen

 

[JamesL]

Taking a group of scriptures and saying it only applies one way to me is tunnel vision... I've heard preachers use it both ways...Suffering with Christ and Eternal Security... Brother Glen

if a preacher shoves it into a discussion of eternal security, that preacher is either ignorant of the scriptures or dishonest. That's not tunnel vision, that's plain fact.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you had the first clue as to the historical disastrous condition
of "the church", you wouldn't be asking such questions.
It all began with Satan deceiving many "uncalled" men
to lead the churches and do away with God's Plan to
evangelize the world (and heal people of their maladies).
No surprise, for he is "the god/ruler of this world/age"!

So you can't answer my questions? Who is the "who" and who is the hireling? Are you part of the house church movement?

 

[Browner]

Are you part of the house church movement?

Of course!
SOON most true believers will be forced to go underground.

 

[Revmitchell]

Of course!
SOON most true believers will be forced to go underground.

For those of you who do not know the house church movement is an extremist movement that hates pastors or anyone in authority in the church. They hate church buildings or any meeting place not in the home. The groups involved in the official house church movement are not actually churches. They do not function as churches and do not have leadership as churches. They are nothing more than small groups who have Bible studies at best.

*Note-this is not to be confused with simply holding church services in a home.

 

[tyndale1946]

For those of you who do not know the house church movement is an extremist movement that hates pastors or anyone in authority in the church. They hate church buildings or any meeting place not in the home. The groups involved in the official house church movement are not actually churches. They do not function as churches and do not have leadership as churches. They are nothing more than small groups who have Bible studies at best.

*Note-this is not to be confused with simply holding church services in a home.

Thanks for the explanation and the heads up but it also bears this question "What is he doing over here?... Recruiting?Sneaky... Brother Glen

 

[Browner]

Thanks for the explanation and the heads up but it also bears this question "What is he doing over here?... Recruiting?Sneaky... Brother Glen

No, just explaining some spiritual Truths.
I do not recommend that you listen to anything Revvy has to say.
And he has provided a very recent example of why:
Believers who start home churches do not "hate" anyone or anything.

If you are a true believer, you will SOON be forced to go underground
to escape such "believers" as the Revvy (who will hate you)!
You will SOON see who the haters are!
This is a warning to you, which is guaranteed Truth.
Watch it happen ... and SOON.

 

[tyndale1946]

No, just explaining some spiritual Truths.
I do not recommend that you listen to anything Revvy has to say.
And he has provided a very recent example of why:
Believers who start home churches do not "hate" anyone or anything.

If you are a true believer, you will SOON be forced to go underground
to escape such "believers" as the Revvy (who will hate you)!
You will SOON see who the haters are!
This is a warning to you, which is guaranteed Truth.
Watch it happen ... and SOON.

I hear what you are saying and you are about as old as I am!... I remember Jim Jones and (The Peoples Temple), David Koresh (The Branch Dividian) and Marvin Applewhite (Hale Boppe)... and being a true believer I won't be lead away with every wind of doctrine because false prophets come and go but the "DANGER" is they lead others away that only wanted to follow the Lord and paid the ultimate price doing it... Brother Glen

 

[steaver]

No, just explaining some spiritual Truths.

Well, we're all still waiting for you to explain how obeying Jesus is not practicing righteousness/law. Which Paul EXPLAINS does NOT justify a person unto eternal life, but you declare Paul wrong by declaring a child of God must practice/obey the law/righteousness or else be found unjustified unto eternal life.

Here, let me refresh your memory of that portion of scripture you pass over in your readings...

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal2:16)

Still waiting for you to destroy Paul's words.....and our understanding...

 

[Browner]

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal2:16)

Sorry, but I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to you that obeying Jesus' commandments, etc. is NOT what doing good works means! ... Please, you're making a fool of yourself!

Meanwhile, please enjoy ...
"In this the children of God and the children of the devil
are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness
is not of God …" (1 John 3:10)

 

[steaver]

Sorry, but I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to you that obeying Jesus' commandments, etc. is NOT what doing good works means! ... Please, you're making a fool of yourself!

Meanwhile, please enjoy ...
"In this the children of God and the children of the devil
are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness
is not of God …" (1 John 3:10)

You have declared it so many times, but have never explained it. Just saying it is so does not make it so, sorry.

Paul does not say "good works". Rather "works of the law". You never explained how obeying Jesus' commandments are not "works of the law". Maybe you could start with listing Jesus' commandments and explain how they have nothing to do with obeying the law.

 

[Browner]

Paul does not say "good works". Rather "works of the law". You never explained how obeying Jesus' commandments are not "works of the law". Maybe you could start with listing Jesus' commandments and explain how they have nothing to do with obeying the law.

I duz have patience enough to remind thou ...
Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law, butski to uphold it.

 

[annsni]

I duz have patience enough to remind thou ...
Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law, butski to uphold it.

No - to "fulfill" it. BIG difference.

 

[Browner]

No - to "fulfill" it. BIG difference.

Yes, you're correct ... I think He accomplished both.
He taught the Ten Commandments in the gospels.
So, where are we with this?

 

[steaver]

Yes, you're correct ... I think He accomplished both.
He taught the Ten Commandments in the gospels.
So, where are we with this?

So where are we with this? Waiting for you to explain how obey Jesus' commands is not works of the law....

 

[Browner]

So where are we with this? Waiting for you to explain how obey Jesus' commands is not works of the law....

We've enjoyed this quickie before ...

What sayest thou to Jesus oft-mentioned fact that:
Those who love Him will obey His commandments,
and the Father will love these people, and etc.

Do believers who do NOT love Jesus go to heaven?
And so ditto re: NOT obeying His commandments?

Bonus coverage:
Do believers whom Father God does NOT love go to heaven?

 

[steaver]

We've enjoyed this quickie before ...

What sayest thou to Jesus oft-mentioned fact that:
Those who love Him will obey His commandments,
and the Father will love these people, and etc.

Do believers who do NOT love Jesus go to heaven?
And so ditto re: NOT obeying His commandments?

Bonus coverage:
Do believers whom Father God does NOT love go to heaven?

Those are all good questions, unfortunately they cannot be answered properly until you answer how obeying Jesus' commandments is not doing the works of the law. We still await your explanation.....

 

[Browner]

Those are all good questions, unfortunately they cannot be answered properly until you answer how obeying Jesus' commandments is not doing the works of the law. We still await your explanation.....

My explanation is simply ...
Either one believes/accepts/obeys Jesus' words, or one doesn't.

We all enjoy the great blessing of testing, which is our free will.
Translation: It's your choice!

 

[steaver]

My explanation is simply ...
Either one believes/accepts/obeys Jesus' words, or one doesn't.

We all enjoy the great blessing of testing, which is our free will.
Translation: It's your choice!

I agree 100% brother! But this isn't an explanation of the issue you are stuck on. You declared that obeying Jesus' commandments is NOT doing works of the Law. Now you need to explain this, how obeying Jesus' commands is NOT doing works of the Law, for it is YOU who has declared this. Until you deal with this point you are stuck. Anything else you come to understand and believe will have to be based on the truth or error of this point. Remember, you claimed you had reconciled the NT scriptures. This is your opportunity to show us how you have done so...