Featured (2) At what point...

"...for those who He personally casts into hell??"
God does not cast anyone into hell. On the contrary, He provides every possible way for every man, woman, boy, or girl to to spend an eternity in heaven. If a person goes to hell, he/she goes there by his/her own choosing.

 

You are within reason to believe as you wish about the upper case as am I. If I choose to honor any person of the Holy Trinity, as is normal for any child of the Most High God, who should seek to cause this one to digress?

 

PRAISE GOD!

 

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deut 30:19

Do the ones who do not choose to go to Hell choose to go to Heaven?

Tell me again why it was that: Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; Acts 17:3 ?

 

This verse strongly supports my position

This question has a flawed premise. We do not choose heaven or hell; we choose to accept or reject Jesus Christ and His atoning work on Calvary. Not accepting His finished work is, by default, rejecting Him.

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This is the aforementioned finished work.

 

. . . the wrath to come. (1 Thess. 1:10)

Whose wrath is it?

 

So people choose to run and do a cannonball into the lake of fire? They just walk up and step over into that abyss?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,' but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’[Matthew 7:21-23]

Who is it that said 'Away from Me, you evildoers!'? Christ Himself.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.[Rev. 20:15]

Do people throw themselves into the lake of fire? I trow not.

And God did not make the way 'possible' but certain for all who believe. There is no 'possibility' in God's character. He either saves or He does not.

 

[Sarcasm]Why, that is man's wrath. They choose to be wrathful.[/sarcasm]

 

A snippet from one of John Piper's articles...

"Beneath this misleading emphasis on hell being what people “most want” is the notion that God does not “send” people to hell. But this is simply unbiblical. God certainly does send people to hell. He does pass sentence, and he executes it. Indeed, worse than that. God does not just “send,” he “throws.” “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown (Greek eblethe) into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15; cf. Mark 9:47; Matthew 13:42; 25:30)."

"The reason the Bible speaks of people being “thrown” into hell is that no one will willingly go there, once they see what it really is. No one standing on the shore of the lake of fire jumps in. They do not choose it, and they will not want it. They have chosen sin. They have wanted sin. They do not want the punishment. When they come to the shore of this fiery lake, they must be thrown in."

As Piper also stated in this article is that people choose chocolate, but not to be obese. People choose cigarettes, but not the cancer. Obesity and cancer are logical outcomes of these many times(many eat chocolate and are not fat and some smoke and never get cancer). But people do sin, freely choose to sin, PB. But they don't choose hell. Some have the mentality of the rich man in Luke 12. However, they die before they realize it. Many think they'll live it up in their youth and when they get older, they serve God, only to die before they can make that 'choice'. So they did not choose hell, but their love of sin caused them to die and go there.

 

"The reason the Bible speaks of people being “thrown” into hell is that no one will willingly go there, once they see what it really is. No one standing on the shore of the lake of fire jumps in. They do not choose it, and they will not want it. They have chosen sin. They have wanted sin. They do not want the punishment. When they come to the shore of this fiery lake, they must be thrown in.

When someone says that no one is in hell who doesn’t want to be there, they give the false impression that hell is within the limits of what humans can tolerate. It inevitably gives the impression that hell is less horrible than Jesus says it is."

John Piper was spot on here. And I don't read a lot of his writings, either. Looks like I may have to now.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-willingly-do-people-go-to-hell

 

For me to say how they ultimately end up in the lake of fire would be pure conjecture on my part. I tend to take Revelation 20:15 literally and feel that the lost will indeed be thrown into the lake of fire.

I agree

Perhaps not literally, but they themselves, and not God, are most certainly the reason why they are being cast into the lake of fire. God allows the natural consequences of man's choices to come to fruition in his life. If a man chooses to abuse alcohol and ends up with liver problems, is that God's fault? If a man smokes his whole life and ends up with lung cancer, did God give him lung cancer. It is my opinion that God simply allows the natural consequences of man's decisions to play out in their life. I believe that is clearly supported by Galatians 6:7, "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

As an educator, I give my students every possible opportunity to pass each and every test. If they choose not to properly prepare for the test and subsequently fail the test, it is not I who failed them; they made that decision on their own. Did they choose to fail? Not specifically, but they chose not to properly prepare for the test and as a result, failed the test.

God has provided for each man the way of salvation. If man chooses to reject that way of salvation, it is not God who sends that man to hell; he made that decision on his own. Did he choose to go to hell? Not specifically, but he chose not to properly prepare for eternity and as a result, died without Christ.

"For all who believe." I agree 100%. He does, however, present man with possibilities.
I Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

For every temptation, there is a possibility of escape. Who provides it? God Himself.

God also made salvation "possible" for every man but not "certain" for every man. That would be universalism.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

I'll just about guarantee they won't run and jump.

Hallelujah.

Men freely choose to sin, mon frere. That was the natural consequence of the fall.

And naturally(better yet, by nature), the consequences of man's choices ends up causing them to die lost. HOWEVER, by supernatural consequences, He saves those that are His.

Nope. Natural consequence.

Nope. Natural consequence.

I agree with you here. Shocked? Lullz. Even christians who smoke and chew die from cancer. I chew snuff myself. I choose to chew. No one forced me to.

As well you should. But God is not man and does not act as a man, even think as a man. God, as the Man Christ Jesus, knew what it was like to live, act, eat, think like a man, yet was untainted by sin. God chose Israel and left the other people out. Not because they were more special(they were vile sinners, too), but because He loved them. The others were left to their own self destruction.

And this proves my point(and Piper's too). They didn't want to fail, but they were either too lazy to study, spent too much time out with friends, &c. They didn't want to fail, but by not properly using their time in studying, they failed your test, the logical outcome. They failed the test, you graded it and gave them a failing grade. Sinners who failed to repent will be cast into hell by God.

This sounds good and all, mon frere, but this notion is not supported by scripture. God left Pharaoh and Egpyt out of His redemptive plan. Not once did He tell Moses to tell Egypt(especially Pharaoh) to serve Him, but to 'let My people go so that they may worship Me'. Not once was Pharaoh and Egypt told to worship God, to offer a sacrifice for their sins, &c. The Philistines were never in God's redemptive plan, either. Same for the Hivites, Hitites, Jebusites, Edomites, Perezites, Ammonites, Moabites(though Ruth came from them), Amalekites, &c.

Hallelujah. Another accord.

Spoken/written to believers and not believers.

Again, directed to believers and not unbelievers.

Please do not take this as me being snarky, but more in the manner of a good, heated, debate, okay? This is why I loathe synergism. There's nothing concrete, settled, in regards to salvation. It's reduced down to 'possibilities'? God will save sinners, but only if they do 'x,y, & z.' Unless they do 'x, y, &z', they'll die eternally lost. It's like God has done everything He could possibly do on His end, but those sinners could not hold up their end of the deal. How weak does that make God?

You need to go down one more verse. Who are those who:
1) received Him?
2) to whom did He give power to become the sons of God?
3) who are those who believe on His name?

"children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.[John 1:13] Those who are born of God have been given the power(ability) to believe upon His name, to receive Him, to become the sons of God.

 

People hold up 'God is love' to the detriment of His other characteristics...attributes. They fail to realize the amount of hatred He has towards sin...and sinners...because 'God is love.' He hates sin so much that a fiery furnace is awaiting all who stand in judgment without Christ as their Life. And He will cast them into hell, personally.

 

Does one prepare a dwelling place for a person they hate?

Does one sustain those they hate?

Mere logic indicates that God is Love.

That the perfection of love is justice and judgment upon those who turn from Christ (the light of the world).

Does not the Scriptures present the believer is not judged and that Christ is the one who justifies?

Therefore, it is not that God does not love unbelievers, but that God has given more love to believers He placed into the care of Christ.

The thinking that God "hates" is not found in Scriptures. Never does the Scriptures declare and attribute of God is hate. Rather, that attribute is ascribed to the enemy of believers, who is a liar.

Warning: Be careful to not attribute to God what is an attribute of that which is evil.

God's wrath is a reflection of His justice and judgment. He has such justice and judgment because love obliges those attributes.

Hate does not bring justice and judgment. Rather hate always brings excess and over indulgent excuse begging for the excess of retribution.

 

Mitigating God's hatred/wrath towards sinners gets you nowhere Monsiuer.

 

That is indeed true.

 

I have given you tons of biblical evidence that your position is totally against what the Scripture teaches in a multitude of places. How can you sit there and type that which is entirely false?

 

You mistake taking God's wrath as an expression of hatred.

Wrath is expressed thoroughly in God's love.

See this: The Wrath of God as an Aspect of the Love of God
Here is one quote:

"It is most fitting therefore that a volume on God's love should include an essay on the wrath of God. This is necessary, not because we need to balance God's wrath with his love, as rival attributes, but because God's love itself implies his wrath. Without his wrath God is simply not loving in the sense that the Bible portrays his love."​

 

Rippon, do not claim evidence from the Scriptures as "tons" for first, it was not, and second, as I showed, the Scriptures you foisted in some regard did not support your claims.

I am not typing falsehood and it is not appropriate for you to make such a declaration.

It is as if I were to state that one desires to claim it to be false for then such a claim allows that person to not have to consider that some tradition taught was wrong and as such be discomforted by obliging some change thinking.