Featured The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
--These are those who put their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and were saved.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
--Verse 30 must be contrasted with verse 31. Though there were many that put their trust in Christ, there were many that did not. They followed him for other reasons. Thus Jesus warns them that if they truly believed they would continue. We have an example of that in I John 2:19

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--A characteristic of a true believer is faithfulness.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--The context shows that Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Why do you want to know this. This is fourteen verses later. Do you mean you couldn't figure this out on your own like I first suggested??

 

This was an answer to my post. Thus an inference that I was lying or had said that people lied. I had never suggested any thing of the kind.

No. You were answering my post, my words, and no doubt misquoting them. It is commonly done.[/QUOTE]

 

I suggested it. I don't take your lead. Hey, you know as is said 'If the shoe fits ____ it'. It matters not a persons position, if they practice sin they should be called on it in love and concern.

Why not answer the questions asked instead of accusing?

 

Right. If they were truly believers they would be DISCIPLES. Note John 8:31. The Christ of God demolishes the false notion of the disciple/believer dichotomy.

Exactly! They continue to abide in truth. I like 2 John. Short. Concise. And it points out this truth. Therefore mere confession of belief is not the end all.

He was still speaking to those who 'believed' and the context is speaking of these. They were not converted. Now, no need to suggest I could not figure this out, I am simply discussing Scriptures with you and you're coming along fine.

 

Jeremiah 17:9 refutes this.

 

No. That is never the state of christians. What is the state of christians is living a life rife with repentance. We can not continue sinning. 1 John 3:6 states it as biblical fact.

Non sequitor.

I never stated this. Please quit your lying.

The bible also gives warnings about forfeiting one's faith...I.E...losing one's salvation, but we know we can not do that. Warnings are given so that we can know that our only Hope is Christ. Those who claim to be christian and walk away shows that they were never saved to begin with.

No you're just off your rocker. Just because we are buffeted by Satan does not mean we are under his authority. The world, and the fullness thereof, belong to God. Satan is trespassing and God has allowed him so much authority, but God trumps him when He sees fit.

 

My friend, you've claimed I've misquoted your words. You know DHK that this is not true whatsoever. Now, if you can show where this was done, it would be appreciated. Other than this my friend it is asked that you take back this accusation upon me, but not for my sake.

 

Again, Bro. DHK,

Are you under authority of Satan? Remember, the whole world sets in darkness and you are in the world. Are you under Satan's authority?

 

Let's lay this out from the beginning. Hopefully you will answer point by point and not with shameful derogatory and inflammatory language as you have here.

You claim to be translated into HIS Kingdom. You claim to speak for God and not have anything to do with Satan. Were the words that you just posted from the Holy Spirit or from Satan:
The words where you accused me:
of having doctrines of devils and Satan having his grip on me Is this of God?

Now consider what the Bible has to say, even in light of the OP:

Quite simply your post sounds very familiar to a doctrine called "Replacement Theology." It may not be, but it sounds like it or a variation of it.
--That was the OP. Then in post #9 still on the first page you posted:

When I was being taught the premillennialism ideas....I recollect this idea, and the discussions about what Israel was looking for....
Now I see it as....what was King Jesus looking for?

In Mt 21....He was looking for fruit from the vineyard as in Isa 5.....He did not find it to His satisfaction as vs43 attests to.
Those who looked for an outward show were disappointed. They looked for a carnal physical Kingdom.....it was not to be.

Like Nicodemus they did not grasp the spiritual truth's first.
So all of this concern over national Israel and what they wanted has come and gone.

That is basically what we are discussing right now. So we aren't off track at all. If we are, you put us there on page one.
That having been said, there is more than one kingdom.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
--Jesus is not currently reigning on this earth. His kingdom is not of this world. He says that clearly and plainly. Why doubt Him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
--There is a spiritual kingdom. We might say that the kingdom of God is composed of all believers, for the kingdom of God is within us, as the Holy Spirit is within us. But it is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical kingdom.

There is a physical kingdom that is to yet to come, and the OT is full of prophecies that describe it:
Isaiah 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
--This Zion is not in the past, it is not present, it is not in heaven, but yet future and on this earth.

And there is a kingdom on this earth which belongs to Satan.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
--He offered these kingdoms to Jesus while tempting. Him. Jesus did not call him a liar. He was telling the truth. He is the god of this world; the kingdoms are his. Christ doesn't rule over sin, but peace and righteousness.

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
--Christ will rule and sit on the throne of David in a coming kingdom. The scriptures do not lie.

2Cor.4:4. Satan is the god of this world.
He is the prince of the power of the air.
The whole world lies in his control--the control of Satan.

Thus the Bible plainly warns us:
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
--Love not the world!
Why? It does not belong to Christ. It is Satan's world. "It is not of the Father, but of the world." (of Satan).

 

For the FOURTH time Bro. DHK,

Does Satan have dominion(authority) over you?

 

As you keep repeating, you clearly think that Satan is my god, and I am under his dominion, Otherwise why would you even ask stupid questions that don't dignify an answer. Is the MO here to assume one is unregenerate unless they tell you otherwise, or are you just assuming that of all non-Cals.?

Good for you. At least now you admit you are "dwelling in the world, the kingdom of Satan."
Your understanding of English is clearly not very good. Never did I say that you Satan was your god. But I did say that we lived in this world, and Satan is the god of this world. If you don't understand how those facts go together you need to go back to your Bible, or at least to what I have already explained. Our victory is in Christ.
It is possible to be a "Carnal Christian" however. Not everyone is submitted to the Holy Spirit at all times as is evidenced on this thread. There have been many carnal posts and many things said that should have never been said.
At least four times you have posted:

That is a real Holy Spirit-filled post isn't it? Was it the Holy Spirit or was it Satan-inspired? Or do you care to tell?
The reason I don't answer is stupidity doesn't deserve an answer.

There is one world, cosmos, which is Satan's world, and he rules it. Hopefully, Christ is your Lord and Savior. Through Him you can victory over your adversary who seeks to devour you, but he is a real adversary and the battle is a real battle.
Just because we "have been translated" does not mean we are there yet. We still live in this cosmos, this physical world, where Satan has dominion. One may not "belong to the world," but he lives in it, and is very obviously influenced by it. Are you?

 

That was not my intent, Monsieur, and I offer my apologies for you inferring that from that question. The reason why I asked you is to hopefully gender some thought from you on your stance. If you belong to God, you are no longer under Satan's rule, but God. That is what makes us different from the world. The world is referring to the lost, and we have been chosen out of it and its and Satan no longer has us as his servants. Satan works in those who are disobedient, and we are no longer that. Now, the only reason why we are obedient is because of Christ's obedience. When we sin(and yes we sin), we are being disobedient, and I will never deny that. But then the chastening of the Lord takes place as He chastens them He loves. When you we growing up, when you disobeyed your parent(s), you were corrected I am sure. But that does not mean that you were under someone else's rule. You still belonged to them. When we sin, we are not under Satan's authority because God corrects us with His 'rod of correction.' It is this 'rod of correction' that shows us we belong to Him.

Already addressed this.

We live in the world, but we are no longer of it. HUGE difference, Monsieur.

Very charitable of you.

Nor did I. I clarified that. Again, my apologies.

Yes we live in this world, but Satan is not the 'god' of all its inhabitants. That will never be properly exegeted from any passages in the bible. Satan is As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Here it shows that Satan is the ruler of the kingdom of the air and I do not deny it. But who does he have as his servants? It is those who are disobedient. In other words, the unregenerate.


All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
Here it shows that we, too, once lived in the world. We not only lived in the world, be we were of the world. We were gratifying the cravings of our flesh. But when God made us alive in Christ, we became no longer of the world, though we still live in the world.


And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Here you can see that we are already in Christ. He has taken us from Satan's dominion(kingdom) and seated us with Christ in the heavenly realm(kingdom of the Son He loves).

Correct. And if Satan has rule of you, me and whoever else, then God is not our ruler. We can only have one ruler in our life. We can not have two. Satan is the ruler over the lost in the world and not the believers. He has no more authority than God lets him have. If he was the true ruler of this earth, there would not be any people alive. He would first have the Christians obliterated to stop us from spreading the gospel and then have the rest of the lost turn on each other. If God did not hold him back, this world, no one could live on it. He is that evil.

His sheep follow Him and not Satan.

Agreed. But those who live repentant lives do just that, repent. The 'carnal Christian' does not live this life.
Okay, let me ask you this scenario. You baptize 'Leroy' after conversing with him, counseling him. Within a few months you begin hearing rumblings of him frequenting strip clubs, bars, cheating on his wife, dabbling with drugs. You go to him after the steps in Matthew 18 have been taken. No change is made in 'Leroy' and your church has to kick him out. He then dies in an accident of him driving impaired. His family knows you were the pastor of the church he once attended. Would you be willing to tell them that 'Leroy', in accordance to how he lived his life, is at rest with God? Look, none of us know who is and isn't in heaven. But we do have confidence in some that we can say we believe they are resting with God. Would you be willing to say that? I would not. Why? His lifestyle did not conform to the image of a child of God as recorded in the bible. That is what the 'carnal christian' lifestyle looks like. Just because they were 'dunked', attended a church once in a while, if they live a life of debauchery, fornication, drug abuse, alcoholism, it's like, 'well, they are still babes in Christ.' Bull-lone-ey.

And again, you misread my question. And again, I offer you an apology from the depth of my heart.

No. The reason why you won't answer it, Monsieur, is because if you do, it will shoot a hole in you stance bigger than the iceberg did the Titanic.

Scripture easily refutes this ideology, Monsieur. I am shocked that you take Satan at face value in Matthew 4:8. Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning. He also said he was a lair and when he lies he speaks his native language.(John 8:44) Satan can not tell the truth and you say that when Satan told him those kingdoms he showed him was his to give, you believe Satan? I am amazed.

He is.

Agree.

Well, the kingdom is here and yet, not yet. It will come in its fullness upon Jesus' return. Even amils such as I hold to this ideology.

Here's the thing. Read the account of Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. They lived in the world and were buffeted by Satan through Nebuchadnezzar. Yet, they were unwilling to bow down to that golden image. Others willingly bowed and worshipped that golden statute, but not them. Things like this is what separates the real Christians from those who claim they are, but when the times of persecution come, they buckle under the pressure. They worshipped God and were willing to be burned alive rather than serve other god(s). The Disciples after Christ's resurrection, would have been willing to be pulled apart by horses before they would deny their Lord, Saviour, and Master. Paul was willing to take 195 lashes, be bound in prison by chains, even be decapitated before denouncing Christ. John was willing to be boiled in oil(though according to historians it never boiled him) before He would denounce his God. David was ready to die at the hands of Goliath if need be. He knew that God would protect him, but he was still willing to die for Him. Then there is Job. No man has taken more punishment from Satan that this man did, in my opinion. If Satan was ruler of this world, Job would have been killed. God set limits on how much affliction Satan could do to Job. And Job did not blame God, either. He would have been willing to die.

So, just because we are buffeted by Satan, are influenced by him, it does not mean we are his. This world is God's and Satan has so much rule and God stops him when He deems it right to do so.

 

I said:
Each person knows their own heart.

This was descriptive of the posters on this board, like yourself. So is this an admission you don't know your own heart? I wasn't talking about the unsaved here.

 

If you were in fact translated into the Kingdom of God, a physical kingdom, and do not live in the kingdom of Satan, as you do, then you would be sinless. But you live in Satan's dominion; his kingdom. As he tempted Jesus to sin, so he tempts you. However, only Jesus can and did remain sinless. You cannot.

No, it is very relevant.
The question was:
2. Are you stating that because you sin no more Satan cannot and does not have any influence over you?
Again, if you are truly not in the kingdom of Satan then Satan does not have dominion over you.
Does Satan have dominion(authority) over you SG?
He didn't have any authority over Christ in Mat.4, but when you sin, give into his temptation, then does he have authority over you in some way. Or are you sinless?

Don't accuse me of something I didn't do. I did't lie. I simply asked you a question.
So is your lie here of God or of Satan. Did Satan just have authority over you??
Or, are you sinless--that is the question I asked you. I didn't accuse you of anything.

The Bible is God's revelation to mankind, a guide to follow, a manual of sorts for the Christian, but inspired of God. But your suggestion is to go on your own. You don't need the commands of God. It is useless information. God just wrote it for the good of his own health. It is irrelevant and redundant information, perhaps good for some history and that is about it. A good summary??

My quote to which you are answering:
all the warnings that Peter, Paul, and John wrote about spiritual warfare, resisting the devil, fleeing the devil, standing against the wiles of the devil, etc.. were just useless words, and the Holy Spirit made a mistake when he inspired them because Satan has no more dominion over us when we were transferred into the kingdom of Christ.
--The inspired Word of God was written for the good of our health, not God's. We are in a spiritual battle. The following are real commands for all of us to follow. They are meaningful, without which, if not obeyed we will be spiritually defeated. (not in loss of salvation, but in loss of spiritual fruit).

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
--Jesus was tempted of the devil, and you say you are not? Are you greater than Christ?

So you are sinless. Satan never causes you to sin. Jesus was perfect, and you are just like him?
God trumps every time, and thus you are sinless.
Thus all of the above scripture I quoted, you can just throw it out. God had it written for no reason at all.
Amazing!

 

All believers are, Colossians 1:13, yet you deny that you have been transferred to the Kingdom of the Son and instead talk of still being in the kingdom of Satan and darkness.

Nope! Not yet.

No, he denies this as does Scripture. It is you who admits to living in Satan's domain, and you want others to be there with you.

Not yet, you have the cart before the horse. The 'physical' kingdom (the consummation of the ages) has not yet come. You conflate things in addition to your other and diverse errors.

Nope. You claim to live there yourself. No believer lives there but you claim you do.

Ya think?