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Featured Who is Sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Darrell C, Feb 24, 2016.

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Who is sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?

Poll closed Feb 24, 2021.
  1. Believers who sin.

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Christ.

    2 vote(s)
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  1. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Great
    Plain stupid bro, plain stupid. Regardless of a spiritual resurrection, the point of the analogy is beliefs are not static, and just change in beliefs do not rewrite history
    Nope
    I don't know about your atheists,but I do know that knowledge of how one gets saved is irrelevant to their history. So a former Muslim who can't explain how they became a Muslim was never a Muslim? Plain silly.

    Permit me to aks you bro. What is the MINIMUM information a sinner needs to believe to be 'truly born again'?

    You will have to demonstrate how it is irrelevant and stop imagining that claiming it isn't is evidence that it's not
    We went through this bro. Beliefs are not static. If you can change a subset of belief system within Christianity, why can't you change the entire system?
    You can lol till rapture(pun) but it takes more than claiming absurdity...you gotta demonstrate it
    Both entail believing. That's the point of the analogy. And this belief can change with time
    It simply means departure from faith once held.
    Nope, you are dithering. You want us to get lost in definitions. I will give you a concession, I will work with whatever definition rocks your theological house of cards. My point remains
     
  2. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Of course they are nonbelievers. Nobody said they are believers. They were once believers. Stil erecting the same strawmen, @Darrell C, receive some creativity in Jesus name!
    Yes, they draw back from something they never had. Very intelligent of you

    Of course they are two, those who draw back, those who don't. BOTH groups are from one group; believers, hence the warning. He is saying, 'don't be like these....be like that'
    You are still missing it. You can reject the truth before receiving it. You can also reject the truth after receiving it. The one who tramples the blood underfoot after he was sanctified had received the truth. He was sanctified, then he transfer all that
    Nothing stinks foulest than resisting Holy Spirit
    The perfected are constantly warned against drawing back.five times bro, five times. If there is no risk of drawing back, what's the point of the warning?

    only God can forgive heresies bro
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    How does Acts 15 teach that "Truths are not static?" There is no "change of truth" in Acts 15, because we would have to say that the Jerusalem Council held that men must be under the Covenant of Law and the New Covenant.

    As far as have I changed any beliefs? Not really, no. I still maintain the same basic truths the Comforter showed me when I was saved. '

    No truth has changed for me.

    As far as non-essential positions, sure. And example would be that I have rejected a number of "truths" popularly held, but, this does not change the essential Doctrines taught in Scripture. In order for what you are trying to present to be true, I would have to have changed position in regards to essential truths taught in Scripture, and I cannot think of the first one that has changed.

    Because I am preserved by God, and kept by His power, I am not shaken with every doctrine which comes blowing by. I know what I believe, whereas it is quite clear in your posting that you are ignorant of some very basic truths.


    Ye, because you have seriously studied this Doctrine and can make an authoritative statement, lol.

    Look, not only do you have to show why a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is un-biblical, you have to also who why your position is. And I don't care what position you take I can already tell you, you are not going to do that.


    Again you impose your understanding in what I have said, and ask an irrelevant question.

    It's very simple, Vooks, the earth is not left desolate except by your belief. When the Millennial Kingdom is established it is not desolate, it is in fact renovated. There will be long life and no enmity between man and animals, and animals and animals. It will be a Kingdom of physical people, beginning first with those who live through the Tribulation, who will have offspring who will, many of them, rebel against God and join Satan in that last battle.

    The Rapture of the Church involves every believer, so, if the Rapture happens at Christ's return, we do not have anyone physical among believers because all believers would be in their glorified state. That leaves only unbelievers to have children, and Scripture makes it clear that no unbeliever will enter into that Kingdom.

    So again, because attention to detail is foregone, and a desired belief is imposed into Scripture, we have a position that is simply ludicrous and quite in contention with what Scripture actually teaches.


    While I believe we can learn from anyone, not sure why you think teaching contrary doctrines that are easily seen to be in conflict with Biblical Doctrine is instilling wisdom in someone.

    And for the record, I look to my Teacher for wisdom.

    And as far as being defensive, there is no need to be defensive when we actually know why we believe what we believe, and can show that from the Word of God.

    Now, I would ask you this: what spirit is it that makes you think you can be offensive and correlate that to God?

    This is just discussion, Vooks, where does all your animosity come from? I can actually help you with that: you are really no different than anyone who once held to certain beliefs but now...has the truth. lol

    Go look through the other threads. Analyze the character of others who say they once believed something other than what they do now. You will see a familiar trait among every single one of them.

    Personally, I think it is a sub-conscious embarrassment that they were wrong before, lol. And it doesn't matter what it was before:

    "I use to be a____________ (Catholic, Protestant, Dispensationalist, Fundamental, Pre-Trib, Premillennial...Christian...), but now I am not, now I have the truth, and you (one still holding to their former beliefs) are deceived!"

    There's a handful of you guys (and gals) on every single forum.

    But guess who's doctrine has remained constant, and who has the ability to hold a discussion and focus on the doctrine?

    Not you guys. You have to insult, you have to ignore the Scripture, and you have to go outside of Scripture to support your views. Well guess what, Scripture teaches clearly that just saying something is not the equivalent of reality.


    The analogy doesn't works, Vooks, because salvation is a singular topic. We don't liken standard belief with salvation, James makes that clear when he states :You believe in God? You do well, the devils also believe and tremble."

    Demons know the veracity of Jesus Christ, does this mean they are/can be/will be saved?

    Another misconception that the L.O.S.T. and even those who do understand Eternal Security have is to think that the unregenerate cannot know truth. That is not the case.

    If it were...no-one would be saved.

    No man is saved apart from the enlightening of the Comforter, Who ministers to the unregenerate:



    John 16:7-9

    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;



    This is the singular truth that is not properly considered by both Calvinists and Arminians. Arminians have, though, fallen into compounding their error of ascribing ability to men with, surprise surprise, loss of salvation. Because they do not understand how one is saved, they do not understand that eternal life is in fact eternal life.

    Calvinists teach that men are regenerate...then they believe. But that creates the problem for them, which conflicts with their view of Eternal Security, that we must equally conclude with the Arminian that salvation is not in fact eternal, because we have examples of those who did receive the truth and willfully reject it.

    So at this point we should examine your understanding of Apostasy, this may help you understand what Scripture teaches about the apostate, and what their condition is.


    God bless.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, no, your point is seen to be running away from an examination of what Scripture teaches about Apostasy. You throw around Theological terms, but, your very use of them and the context you use them in shows your understanding to be quite erroneous.

    Hence questions you pose like "What was Christ sanctified from (which shows an understanding of imposing a removal of sin from Christ Himself)?"

    You say believers can be Apostate, now show me that in Scripture.


    God bless.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    You, Vooks, are not the Holy Spirit.

    According to your testimony you have been saved for a couple months. Believe it or not, I am very happy to see you on the forum seeking to defend your faith, but, you are going to need to learn how to study Scripture. Right now you are imposing doctrine into it, rather than seeking to understand the Doctrine that is taught by it.


    God bless.
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    You, Vooks, tread underfoot the Son of God when you teach that His Sacrifice does not bring remission of sins.

    You are rejecting the Sacrifice which is sanctified, set apart by the Writer and the Holy Ghost...from the sacrifices of the Law.

    You are resisting the very Holy Ghost Who has, if you are saved, already shown you that the Sacrifice of Christ is the only means of salvation.

    What you replace that with is human effort. You now have a clean slate but you better not sin. The hypocrisy of this view is tragic. You try to say that in view in Hebrews 10 are believers who cannot, like you, ask for forgiveness and "remain" saved.

    And the fundamental error is not understanding the finality of salvation in Christ. One is either in Christ, or they are not.

    This is why you, and all of the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) must make the unbelievers, the Apostates...believers. This is why you cannot see that two groups are in view, believers and unbelievers.

    And this is why you do not want to enter into new territory in examining this issue, because you know you are not familiar with passages which actually speak of apostasy.


    God bless.
     
  7. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    They believed circumcision was necessary,then they abandoned this
    Is it possible for a Christian to subscribe to a false doctrine?
    By 'truth' I mean what you think to be true,whether it is true or not.
    What is the difference between 'essential' and 'non-essential'?
    Crass arbitrariness
    What is 'essential'?
    Every religionists would gladly regurgitate that. Jehovah's witnesses believe it too. So it's glib and nonsensical, not to mention circular
    Pre-trib was my first love when I received Christ. That such a fine mind can countenance such foolishness puzzles me to date. Thank you Holy Spirit for delivering me.
    Jesus resurrects and raptures the church at the start of the 1000 years. The fact that AFTER this Satan finds some to deceive on earth means after resurrection, some men will remain on earth
    Aha!
    I see your point
    Where is this Kingdom in Revelation?
    None of your beliefs can stand scrutiny. I have demonstrated this over and over. Yet I refuse to invoke swine and pearls
    Heretics think everyone else is wrong
    I don't,mimlookmto myself. So you are light years ahead of me. I'm hell fodder. Happy now?
    True,mexcept you fail to demonstrate the basis for your beliefs
    Just about to ask you the same question as well!
    You are the most vicious of all. Remove the log from your eyes bro. Remove the whole forest of them
    Not wrong,mbut deceived,and my heart bleeds for the deluded...that's why I'm here
    And there are shrinks in just about every forum. The PSYCHOanalyst
    Had a Catholic tell me this once. Then a Jehovah Witness. They take exceptional pride in 'uniformity' of their beliefs.
    Again,the analogy lies in the fact that both are beliefs
    They won't be saved,mbut it is not because their is some lower knowledge or anything,mbut because there is no offer of salvation for them
    Strawmen!!!!!!!!!!




    Eternal life is CONDITIONAL bro. It is received by faith,it needs faith to keep it. Hence the innumerable exhortations to hold on to the end.
    Eternal security has no place in scriptures. You are busy building strawmen. The fact that it can be lost does not reduce anything from its 'eternalness'. Eternal life is a conditional Gift. We went through this @Darrell C, God does not just pour this gift on men, they must receive it by faith. And they must keep it by maintaining that faith. S
    Mighty glad to do that.
    Apostasy is complete abandonment of to borrow your phrase 'essential doctrines' of Chriatianity
     
  8. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    I have fed you with clear scriptures bro,my you keep on subverting and resisting Him. You have made the wildest claims without bothering to substantiate....yet you are a Methuselah in Christ!

    The analogy is just that...an analogy. I'm surprised you quickly latched on it to attack my person. They say simple minds or simpletons attack people,....they are right.

    My experience has taught me that the longer you cling to a heresy, the less likely you are to abandon it. Your obstinacy is born from years of regurgitating nonsense. Nevertheless,Word is sharper than any Two-edged sword, trust me your stubbornness is nothing before God
     
  9. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Because you defined sanctification as being made holy. So Christ was made holy by his own blood even as the blood made @Darrell C holy?

    Hebrews 10 warns that sanctified men can end up in judgement. That is one example
     
  10. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    You make Holy Spirit warnings against falling away nonsense seeing you can't fall away from nothing
    Silly that Jesus was sanctified by his own death. So before his death he was one and the same with the sacrifice of the law?
    Do you ever pause to think before posting?
    @Darrell C,I'm not saved. Will that add any value to your baseless claims that Jesus was sanctified by his own death?
    If you view faith as human effort,then you have a point. We agreed that it takes some human participation in his salvation. Do you regard that as work?
    True,my ou can't be in and out,but you may be in and then you walk out. You can cast away your confidence
    Hebrews 10:35 (KJV)
    Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward

    What happens when you cast it away @Darrell C?
    Two groups sharing a common past; SANCTIFIED.
    Hebrews 10 is one example. If you want another please aks
     
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    "Being made holy" means being set apart. It means being designated as holy. It means...holy.

    Again you impose your erroneous understanding of it and make it to mean Christ was "made holy" in a sense of being cleansed of sin.

    Again, Christ is sanctified in the verse in relation to the Sacrifice, which is, now listen, set apart from the sacrifice of the Law.

    Believers are sanctified, now listen, from the unbelievers. In other words they are set apart from the world and unto God. Not "made holy" in the sense you impose into it, which projects a picture of Super-Saint.

    I am holy, set apart from the world, and unto God. That is a positional sanctification, not a practical holiness. I am being sanctified in a progressive manner when we enter a context of holiness being that of a righteous standing.

    Christ was sanctified in His Death, that is, His death is set apart specifically by the Writer from the other sacrifices he is speaking about in the Chapter, which are the sacrifices of the Law.

    Again...


    Hebrews 10:1-4

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.



    This is just basic, Vooks: the sacrifices of the Law could not take away sins, and bring the "comer thereunto" (the one offering the sacrifice) perfect.

    Christ's did.

    Where remembrance of sins is the characteristic of sacrifice for sins under the Law, it is not the characteristic of the the Sacrifice for sins.

    You refuse to see the contrasts being drawn. I told you, read the Book ten times, and it will become understandable, because you will become familiar with the Book as one continuous teaching, rather than where you, and the rest of the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) are, which is a disjointed and cherry-picked understanding which has your theology imposed into it.

    This is why it is absurd to realistically think that an Inspired Writer of Scripture is saying two opposing things and both can be true.

    Just do this: read Chapter Ten ten times.

    I dare you.

    I am quite confident if you set your personal desire for what you want it to say, and simply rely on God to help you understand it...He will do that.

    Out of time, Vooks, so get busy!

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I want to look at every instance of Apostasy in Scripture. We can't just base a position from one passage. We need to have a consistent teaching throughout Scripture. Scripture doesn't teach one thing in one passage and something completely opposite in another.

    So let's continue, please provide another passage that is dealing with Apostasy.


    God bless.
     
  13. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    John 15:1-6
    There is a thread out there. Go through it and see if the meat is too strong for your spirit
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And just a quick comment here: it does not say "Cast not away your salvation," but, is speaking about confidence.

    The irony here is that if salvation is our confidence, rather than the Biblical view that salvation is only through Christ, then, we create once more a paradox.

    Salvation is never, never, never, Vooks, taught to be a "reward." The very opposite is the the consistent teaching of Scripture, that salvation is bestowed on those who do not merit salvation.

    Here is an example:



    Ephesians 2:8-10

    King James Version (KJV)

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



    Here is another:



    Romans 4

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

    2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.



    You might say, well, see, it says reward.

    But consider what he is saying, Vooks, he is saying the exact opposite of what your doctrine teaches, making salvation a reward, quite opposite of what Paul teaches here. Salvation is not a reward for efforts we put forth, this would make God in debt to men, and that is not ever going to happen, because man is dependent on righteousness being imputed, and this through faith.


    God bless.
     
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Coward.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    We are going to draw you out of your mind, Vooks, and get you into the Word of God.

    Your doctrine must conform to what Scripture teaches, and right now you conform it to what you want to believe.


    Gods bless.
     
  17. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    And I have called out this nonsense.
    EVERY mention of the blood of Jesus is with regard to cleansing from sins WITHOUT exception. This is why your theory is baseless
    Again, the contrast is clear as daylight. You are erecting strawmen as a last resort. Hebrews 1-10 has one single theme; NT>OT
    But NT>OT is not equivalent OT Christ being sanctified or set apart by his own blood. This is a silly argument injected with the sole purpose to digress.
    What is insanely absurd is claiming that Holy Spirit is warning believers against something they can't possibly commit. That's blasphemy. But then again, how would a heretic see it!
    Make it 100 and still the blood of Jesus never sanctified him from nothing. The blood without exception washes sinners,sanctifies them
    I'm quite certain that you are so deeply indoctrinated in heresies that only Holy Spirit can deliver you
    Was born busy


    Receive sense in Jesus name
     
  18. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Dyslexia is not terminal
     
  19. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Every time I call out heretics , blood boils and they get agitated. They throw tantrums, pluck their hair.....I love watching them tormented by the Truth. Beyond theatrics, Holy Spirit saves some, others perish in their obstinacy. Their blood is on them

    Your doctrines can't conform to scriptures,my ou must discard them or remain a heretic
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Where are your passages on Apostasy, Vooks. You are the loss of salvation teacher, surely you can support your own doctrine.


    God bless.
     
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