Featured The Final Authority of Scripture

Did he not say "blessed is he who READS" as well as those who "HEAR" the words of this prophecy. The "hearing" was not John orally transmitting this to anyone as he was imprisoned on an isle. The "hearing" was those members in those congregations when assembled who heard the pastor READ it to them. Therefore, "HEAR" has no reference to oral tradition but to listening to someone READ the written word.

Every argument you have made against my exposition has failed because it failed to properly consider context.

All the following texts you provide do not contradict my position that oral preceding written and that is the historical fact. None of these texts demonstrate that persons other than the prophet relating orally what they claim to have heard is either equal or superior to written. In fact, the Bible teaches the very reverse and does so clearly in the case of Isaiah 8:20 where "SPEAK" is regarded inferior to "THIS WORD" and in 2 Pet 1:17 where the written word is said to be "more sure" than apostolic oral witness and in Matthew 15 where ORAL TRADITION is wrong and is submitted to the WRITTEN word for correction proving that ORAL TRADITION is inferior to the WRITTEN word as both had their origin with the prophets.

 

The term "testimony" can be used for both oral and written. I have proven Revelation 1:2 refers to something that can be "READ" and it is this READING that the members "HEAR" in the congregations.

 

Sorry Bob, but I have no clue what point you are trying to make. I read your post a couple of times but it still makes no sense to me. What am I missing?

 

Again, I don't get your point. I have already made the point that the scriptures were used to authenticate apostolic oral teaching as in Acts 17. The "testimony" of Jesus can be both oral and written concurrent with the NT prophet, but it is the written testimony that stands as the validation of that prophet's oral teaching (Isa. 8:20).

I don't see how saying the "testimony of Jesus" can be first oral and then finalized in written form prohibits first century saints from applying New Testament Scriptures according to the Isaiah 8:20 principle?

 

What have I said that you would lead you to believe that is my position? I have been saying that they were commanded by the apostles to put prophets to the test before believing what they say or write is authentic. I have said that Paul commended the Bereans for using that very means to authenticate Paul's oral teaching. If I have conveyed the idea that Old or New Testament saints could not accept current prophets, their oral teachings and writings, I am not aware of it.

I agree but I am unaware of any statement I have made that would lead you to think I believe otherwise. Perhaps you can point out a statement I have made that would lead you to believe I have taught otherwise.

 

When you say "believe in" what are they believing? That it is an historical document? That it merely claims to be God's word? That it is one among many other religious books recognized as "scriptures" among world religions? That parts of it might contain God's Word?

DHK is right when he says if they are a "bible believing" Christian they believe it is God's Word and they will treat it as breathed out by God and therefore different from any other book.

For example, for the sake argument, let's suppose God appeared to you right now and began to audibly speak to you. How would you treat what you were hearing? Would you treat what you heard as final in authority with regard to what is being breathed out of God's mouth? Biblical writers claim the Scriptures are breathed out of God's own mouth, now either you believe that or you do not - there is no middle ground. If you believe that, then would you not treat it precisely the same way as if God actually appeared and spoke to you? If not, why not?

If the Scriptures provide tests to authenticate anyone claiming new revelation from God should not bible believing Christians apply those tests before accepting such supposed revelations as authentic? Does not those very tests declare that authenticated scriptures are final authority over any supposed new revelations (Isa. 8:20).

If the Word of God claims that scriptures will be bound up and sealed by Christ among his JEWISH disciples, thus ceasing the prophetic ministry along with its authenticating signs and wonders then why should Bible believing Christians accept any post-first century writings as God's Word?

If Jesus corrected oral traditions of his day by the scriptures but never corrected scriptures by oral traditions does not that demonstrate that scriptures are final authority with regard to oral tradition? If Paul praised the Bereans for authenticating his oral teaching by the Scriptures does not that demonstrate scriptures are final in authority when it comes to any new revelations whether delivered orally or in writing (Isa. 8:20)?

 

I believe that Jesus and the apostles knew they were completing the Biblical cannon. In the upper room discourse Jesus told the apostles that when the Holy Spirit came to replace him as the new parcelete that He would lead them "into ALL truth." The manner in which he would do this is that he would bring to their remembrance those things which he had taught:

Jn. 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

What the Holy Spirit will do is "testify" of Christ and thus produce through them the "testimony" of Christ (Isa. 8:16 "the testimony"):

26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

The apostle John who penned these words by the direction of the Holy Spirit went on later to say that the "spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus" - Rev. 19:10 and that his final apostolic writing was such a "prophecy" of "the testimony" of Jesus (Rev. 1:2) which should be "READ" in the churches (Rev. 1:3).

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev. 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 ¶ Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Moreover, those things of Christ which the Holy Spirit shall shew them include not only what Christ said in his personal ministry but what he has to say about the future (and we find that the final book of the New Testament is completely dedicated to future things:

Jn. 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The New Testament canon is closed by the last living apostle concerning this very subject of things to come shown to him by the Spirit of Christ. Revelation 1:2 have a strong resemblance to Isaiah 8:16 by the words "The testimony and the Law" compared to "the word of God and the testimony." After the law and the testimony are bound and sealed together as "this word" (Isa. 8:20) the next revelation Isaiah expects is the Lord's coming from heaven. Moreover, after John, the last living apostle and disciple who walked with Jesus seals this prophecy (Rev. 22:18-19) the next revelation John expects is the Lord's coming from heaven (Rev. 22:20-21).

However, back to the upper room prediction that his disciples would be led into "all truth" through the Spirit bringing to remembrance what he had said to them, thus producing a testimony of Jesus, then Jesus claims that this testimony of Christ through them would be preserved unto future generations which shall come to faith "through their word."

Jn. 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

He did not say through their "words" (plural) but through the singular "word" as one unified source. This ministry of the Holy Spirit through "my disciples" (Isa. 8:16) to produce "the testimony" of Jesus is what the writer of Hebrews refers to when he says:

Heb. 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

The Son's words are provided for us and preserved for us through "the word" (Jn. 17:20) of his disciples as the "testimony of Jesus." They are first orally transmitted to the churches (Acts 2:41; 14:4-5) and then perserved in written form for the churches and for future generations. The transition from oral to written form are both equally called "the traditions" recognized by the apostles and New Testament churches as "scriptures" or the Word of God:

2 Thes. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

For our Catholic friends, note the term "traditions" equally apply to both the oral and written record and especially note that the command to keep the oral tradition is contemporary with the churches actually receiving it from the prophetic source within the actual time frame of the apostles who can still authenticate their oral teaching rather than in some future generations. It is the written form that preserves it for future generations which they realized they were producing and affirmed what they were writing was to be the final authority:

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

2 Pet. 1:16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.....
19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2 Pet. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The apostles understood they were producing the testimony of Jesus in written form as scripture. They were fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah that the law and the testimony would be bound and sealed "among my disciples" and the last living apostle realized his final writing was the completion of "the word of God and the testimony" (Rev. 1:2) that completed the Biblical canon by the revelation of future things from his own time concluded by a new heaven and earth thus sealed "the word of God and the testimony expecting the next revelation from heaven to be the personal visible coming of Jesus Christ:

Rev. 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 ¶ He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Isa. 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

I don't get your point as my position has been from the beginning that generally the oral precedes the written and both are equally called a "testimony."

Where we differ is that I state and have proven that the oral is always subject to the final authority of the written and that the written supersedes and preserves the oral.

And yes, I have proven that with the case of Jesus correcting the oral by the written. I have proven that with the Bereans validating the oral by the written and being praised for that very act. I have proven that contextually in Isaiah 8:20 that the oral ("speak") is to be subjected to written "word" as final authority. And Yes, I have proven that "this word" is contexually what can be "bound" and "sealed" and people and free flowing dialogue cannot be bound and sealed.