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The gospel according to Paul

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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
Look, I have a feeling you guys are not going to give up your Calvinistic view, not even if hell freezes over. It seems many of you have made his theology the measuring stick of all truth. That's very dangerous because Calvin was just a man, a sinner, and you should not make him the measuring stick of truth. The Holy Spirit should guide you....
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I follow Jesus, not Calvin, its just that calvinism makes far more biblical sene then your theology does!
 
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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
Here's my summation on Calvinism:

  • It is a heresy
  • It is "another gospel"
  • It's smacks of favoritism
  • It makes God appear to be a sinner
  • It is just just another form of subtle, self-righteousness, as in, "God picked me, but you others have been predestined for damnation"
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EVERY one of your points are wrong!
IF it is indeed heresy, then ALL of us here holding to it are lost sinnrs per you, right?
 
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Yeshua1

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Martin Marprelate said:
Well Amen to all that, but you have been telling us that God has had mercy on all men because Christ has suffered and died for all men. But in fact the context of Romans 9:15 is nothing to do with idolatry, but with election. Just take some time to read through Romans 9:6-26. I don't have time to exegete the whole passage now, but it is actually very obviously about election. 'Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honour and one for dishonour?' (v.21).

well amen again. All God's elect will be saved (John 6:39 etc.), but they will only be saved as they persevere in the faith. If they do not persevere, what can be said about them? That they are not God's elect; that they were never actually saved. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ says of such people, "I never knew you!" Not, "I knew you once and then forgot about you," and why John says, 'They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have continued with us; but they went out that it might be made manifest that they were not of us' (1 John 2:19).

This is why I dislike OSAS intensely, and prefer the term the Puritans and the early Baptists used: The Perseverance of the Saints. The people of the New Covenant are a holy and sanctified people, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and there is no question but that every single one for whom Christ died will reach heaven. (eg. John 17:24). But they will not be saved in ungodliness and/or unbelief, which is why Paul bids professing Christians to examine themselves (2 Corinthians 13:5). The warnings are there not because true Christians may fall away, but in order that nominal Christians may be alerted to their danger.
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Peter stated same thing, when hea sked us to make sure of our election and calling!
And still like eternally securit as aterm, as that makes me realize that I ca have confidence in my salvation, as all 3 of the trinity imvolved in keeping me saved and secured...
Free now not to sin, but to serve....
 
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AndThisGospel

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Yeshua1 said:
EVERY one of your points are wrong!
IF it is indeed heresy, then ALL of us here holding to it are lost sinnrs per you, right?
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There's always repentance and forgiveness.....

E.G., I myself use to a legalistic. I thought I could gain heaven partially by Christ and partially by my law keeping....
 
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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
That's a cop-out phrase (i.e, "they were never actually saved")...It stinks with judgmentalism.

I guess that the followers of Calvin do not have a rudimentary understanding from what Christ came delivery us. Deliverance is salvation. Christ came to save us from something. So from what did He come to save us?

Gal 4:4 "When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law....

What is wrong about being under God's law?
  • "There is none righteous, no, not even one" Rom 3:10
  • “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." Gal 3:10
The law proves that we are a bunch of sinners. Not 50% sinners, but 100% sinners. And then it places us in death row awaiting the judgment.

Gal 3:23 "...before faith came, we were imprisoned under the law..."

To remain "under law" is to be cursed; the "curse of the law" is the second death.

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the abominable, the murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars shall have their portion in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. This is the second death." Rev 21:8

Therefore Christ came to save us from "the transgression of law". Christ came to save us from under the law that justly condemns us.

As long as we place our faith in Christ, our High Priest, we stand "holy & blameless" before God's law in heaven, but if we apostatize, we can say goodbye to grace and hello "to the cruse of the law".


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We follow Jesus, not Calvin! And jesus staed that he is able to keep forever those he saves, and hebrews/Jude agreed with Him, why not you?
 
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Yeshua1

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Martin Marprelate said:
You are breaking the rules of this forum by accusing your brothers in Christ of heresy, but apart from that you have failed utterly to prove your point and are now reduced to mere assertion.

This I know.

I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew
He moved my soul to seek Him, seeking me;
It was not I that found, O Saviour true;
No, I was found of Thee.

Thou didst reach forth Thy hand and mine enfold;
I walked and sank not on the storm-vexed sea--
'Twas not so much that I on Thee took hold,
As Thou, dead Lord, on me.

I find, I walk, I love, but Oh, the whole
Of love is but my answer, Lord, to Thee;
For Thou wert long beforehand with my soul,
Always Thou lovest me.

Anon. 1878.
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He eems to be mis matching karl barth and hyper rminian here!
 
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Yeshua1

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Martin Marprelate said:
It's all down to us then. It is not God who saves us, but we who must save ourselves. And how is this not 'self-righteousness' (your insult, post # 107), that we secure our own salvation by our constancy, our wisdom, and our faithfulness?

God forbid that anything in my salvation should depend on me!
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Jesus stated that upin HIM salvation holds, not us!
 
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AndThisGospel

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Yeshua1 said:
Wha did you find out?
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Answer: "if, whether"

So your point doesn't apply to Col 1:22

So we are "holy & blameless" IN CHRIST (and He is in heaven) "IF" or "whether" we keep our faith in him.

Please keep in mind that the difference between premeditated apostasy and backsliding are two different things.

David is a good example of backsliding:

Preface: For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

"Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquity. Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me." Ps 51:9-12

King Saul is a good example of premeditated apostasy:

"The Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul" 1 Sam 16:1)
 
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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
Answer: "if, whether"

So your point doesn't apply to Col 1:22

So we are "holy & blameless" IN CHRIST (and He is in heaven) "IF" or "whether" we keep our faith in him.

Please keep in mind the premeditated apostasy and backsliding are two different things.

David is a good example of backsliding (i.e, the Bathsheba issue).

King Saul is a good example of premeditated apostasy.
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can alo mean th if is assumed to be true!
 
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AndThisGospel

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Saul was guilty of the unpardonable sin:

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

The unpardonable sin is continued resistance of the Spirit of God until you completely harden your heart against God's Spirit....

If it means anything, I'll give you this: It is hard to be lost and easy to be saved and stay saved if we have the faith of a child.
 
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AndThisGospel

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Yeshua1 said:
can alo mean th if is assumed to be true!
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Why muddy the water? Why confuse things? Take it as it reads.

So Calvin was wrong on the "elect"....I'm sure he will be in heaven upon the resurrection. I don't think he meant to present error....We are after all, only human....We don't know it all....
 
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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
Why muddy the water? Why confuse things? Take it as it reads.

So Calvin was wrong on the "elect"....I'm sure he will be in heaven upon the resurrection. I don't think he meant to present error....We are after all, only human....We don't know it all....
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Calvin and Paul and Jesus agreed on the Elect!
 
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Yeshua1

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AndThisGospel said:
Saul was guilty of the unpardonable sin:

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

The unpardonable sin is continued resistance of the Spirit of God until you completely harden your heart against God's Spirit....

If it means anything, I'll give you this: It is hard to be lost and easy to be saved and stay saved if we have the faith of a child.
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The lost will always resst the Spirit, buthe elect shall come to faith on Christ!
 
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