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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Agent47, Jan 23, 2017.

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  1. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I just don't like the term. But sure, I think the Bible depicts God as the author of sin.
     
    #21 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  2. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    So it's all about preference. Ok.
    What would you say of someone who holds on to all you said but at the same time vehemently denies God authored Sin?

    Thank you so much for your worthy contribution.
     
    #22 Agent47, Jan 25, 2017
  3. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I'd disagree with them on that point. What else is there to say?
     
    #23 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  4. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Would you say they are inconsistent?

    I mean is it possible to believe all that and not to charge God with authoring Sin?
     
    #24 Agent47, Jan 25, 2017
  5. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    It's possible to believe just about anything, so I'm not going to say that it isn't possible.

    I do think some of the "author of sin" denials are inconsistent, yes.
     
    #25 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  6. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Valid point. I meant is it possible to believe all you have and conclude God as not authoring sin

    Ok. Thank you.
     
    #26 Agent47, Jan 25, 2017
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Here let's just throw the idea of predestination out the window and deal with God knowing that Adam would sin. This is what I was speaking of (pre-knowledge) because it is whete A47 agreed.

    Does God know, before he created Adam, that when placed in the Garden Adam will sin? If so then does God create Adam, plant the Garden, and put Adam in the Garden with the tree and the serpent all the while knowing for certain what will become of the situation? If so, then it is impossible that God was unwilling for the Fall to occur. In fact, that God is Righteous and at the same time willing that the Fall occur speaks of greater purpose.
     
    #27 JonC, Jan 25, 2017
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The answer to those questions are for the most part unknowable.
     
    #28 Revmitchell, Jan 25, 2017
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    They are nonsense questions (like asking "what if Jesus decided not to go to the cross?"). Nothing is gained from them but the guy kept on wanting an answer.
     
    #29 JonC, Jan 25, 2017
  10. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Steer clear of 'nonsense questions' and threads.
     
    #30 Agent47, Jan 25, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    WRONG!.
    God created the very bes conditions, and created Adam s morally pure agent, and he permitted the Fall in order to have all things work out for the best by the Cross in the end!.
    God si light, in Him NO dakness..
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nope, not evn hinted at in the Bible!
     
    #32 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is , as Giod CANNOT do aythingainst His divine nature/attributes...
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wou;ln't it help on this discussion if we all agreed that at our best, we still know little compared to the Lord, that He explained to us things at our levels, and that He knows all things, so what happened in he Fall we can know to a degree, but not in absolute sense?
     
    #34 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  15. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Working out the best by having most of humanity burning in hell?
    With foreknowledge and omnipotence, that's a plan, not merely something "permitted" as if he were almost uninvolved.
     
    #35 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think that there is far too much left undefined. God created the best conditions...for what? Rain, Snow, man, God, the planet, redemption, his glory, etc.

    The first step, I suppose, should be to determine the purpose of redemption and perhaps the obligation that God may have as Creator towards those he creates.

    This thread has been plagued with inconsistencies, illogical conclusions, undefined terms, etc. from the start. Perhaps it tried to encompass too much.
     
    #36 JonC, Jan 25, 2017
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have idea on how many will get saved by the Lord, but we do know that it will be number great, from every tribe'tongue/nation, and the Lord had every right to allo all to be damned!
     
    #37 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think biggest problem has been all of us with our puny minds are trying to fully understnd te ways and workings on his issue!
     
    #38 Yeshua1, Jan 25, 2017
  19. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    An omniscient and omnipotent god who would create a world in which every person without exception would be tormented forever hits levels of sadism that one cannot even fathom.
     
    #39 StefanM, Jan 25, 2017
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    On the contrary, if God condemned every person in the world to hell, He would be entirely just, because all men have sinned (Romans 3:23). What He would not be is merciful.
    If even one person is saved, God is merciful, because that person is receiving mercy.
    However, we know that there is a vast crowd of people, so huge that no one can number it, that will be saved (Revelation 7:9). So we praise God for His wonderful mercy and grace, which is what the Bible does regularly.

    What I would like is for Agent 47 to tell us whether he thinks that crowd would get bigger or smaller if
    a. Man had free will (whatever that may be).
    b. If there were not Irresistible Grace.

    And why he thinks so.
     
    #40 Martin Marprelate, Jan 25, 2017
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