Featured Discussing/Debating beliefs

Question: were they ever capable of not sinning? Did they have the ability to choose Christ, having not been elected?

 

Choice and predestination aren't exactly all that friendly.

The illusion of choice, sure.

 

Scripture never refers to the elect except in the context of already being saved. Scripture never speaks of lost people as being elect. Ever.

God so loved the world, not just the elect.

God is not willing that any should perish.

Elections is corporate and one only becomes elect once they are saved.

 

Then why do any perish?

 

Predestination applies only from God towards His own elect in Christ!

 

They would not have that ability, but would still freely choose to reject Jesus!

 

As sinnrs, we hae freedom to choose still, but limitedas to what we can choose!

 

How can you freely do something if you have no other option? That's not freedom. That's determinism.

 

Except we can't choose the things that really matter, eh?

 

Due to thm being found in Adam, not in Christ, as the have rejected Him!

 

If by predestination you mean God predestined some specific individuals to be predestined to salvation and other specific individuals to be predestined to hell then you have no biblical support.

 

We re still free to choose what we want!

 

Agree with first point, not second one, s predestination applies only towards His elect!

 

Is a sinner rejecting Christ on their own not sufficent?

 

Yea I get it but here is the thing. It is easy to say that God has predestined only the elect but by default he also predestines the non elect by abandoning them from election. (not that I believe in your definition of election) It is impossible to predestine one side and not the other.

 

Cop-out. An earthworm is free to choose what it wants. If your freedom is only to act according to your desires/impulses, you have no freedom.

 

They were born into it without any opportunity to change that (unless elected, per your position). They might as well be sent to hell for having been born with two feet.

 

When the sinner was born without the capacity to do otherwise? No, it's not.

 

The only thing that matters with regard to freedom in salvation is do we have the freedom to choose God or reject Him. Is it possible that our heart would swing either way? If God regenerates us before salvation then there is no choice or freedom to choose.

 

There is no real free will, just limited one!