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Featured Pushing your beliefs on others

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Jan 28, 2017.

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  1. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I wonder how many who are NOT elect WILL be saved.....
     
    #41 JamesL, Jan 29, 2017
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I’m glad that you had the opportunity to talk to her, at least. And I hope that you witnessed to her (that you shared the love of God that was expressed in the sending of Jesus Christ that we might have eternal life).

    A family friend was saved because she ran into a youth group on a beach in Florida. They witnessed to her, and she ignored the message. Thankfully they shared the gospel, the love of God, instead of the Law because she attributes this encounter as the seed planted which gave forth fruit years later.

    The reason we give the gospel to someone who is opposed to God is this is what Jesus did. While we were still sinners (enemies of God) Christ died for us. And it is the power of the gospel (not the Law) to save. The idea that we should even consider withholding the gospel and instead offer the Law is demonic doctrine foreign to both Scripture and orthodox Christianity. Stephen gave the gospel to those who were killing him. Paul gave the gospel to those who stoned him. Peter gave the gospel to those who put him in jail. And Jesus is the gospel to those sinners for whom He died.
     
    #42 JonC, Jan 29, 2017
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    None of the elect are lost. Scripture never speaks of the elect except that they are saved already. Then it points back, but never does Scripture present a lost elect person just waiting to be saved.
     
    #43 JonC, Jan 29, 2017
  4. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    For sure. But scripture doesn't limit the saved to only the elect
     
    #44 JamesL, Jan 29, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Scripture does not mention salvation to the elect at all. I believe it points to the elect as those who are saved (others see two different groups of saved people here).

    Regardless, the term "elect" was never used in Scripture in terms of evangelism and it has no business crossing the lips of a Christian witnessing to the lost.
     
    #45 JonC, Jan 29, 2017
  6. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I agree wholeheartedly.

    Election is an eschatological hope.
     
    #46 JamesL, Jan 29, 2017
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  7. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    In my open air preaching I start with the 10 commandments most of the time, but there are times I start with Romans, and then end with the gospel. In my letters I always give the gospel as well. However in person I sometimes withhold it from the proud who do not wish to hear it.
     
    #47 evangelist6589, Jan 29, 2017
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Just a friendly suggestion - never withhold the gospel. When you do so you go from evangelist to opposing Christ. Our faithful obedience is never dependent on how the world receives the message.
     
    #48 JonC, Jan 29, 2017
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I haven't thought of it that way before, but I can go with that.
     
    #49 JonC, Jan 29, 2017
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
     
    #50 Martin Marprelate, Jan 30, 2017
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  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    It is quite Biblical:



    2 Peter 2:20-22

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


    False conversion is probably one of the biggest problems in Modern Christendom. Inadvertent inclusion of the unsaved among the Body can lead to great tragedy and do more harm than good.


    God bless.
     
    #51 Darrell C, Jan 30, 2017
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    This section in 2 Peter is about false teachers in the church, not false converts.
     
    #52 InTheLight, Jan 30, 2017
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  13. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    This I know. Now, that verse is talking about the elect, who are called by the Name of the Lord and confess Him before men....and there's an eschatological salvation in view

    I'm talking about saved from destruction and eternal separation from God.
     
    #53 JamesL, Jan 30, 2017
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There are times where the doctrine of election can and must be used in witnessing situations....Jesus did it, the Apostles did it....
     
    #54 Iconoclast, Jan 30, 2017
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps. Which passages do you mean?

    (I can't think of any off hand that were in the context of evangelism, but that's not saying much).
     
    #55 JonC, Jan 30, 2017
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So am I.
     
    #56 Martin Marprelate, Jan 31, 2017
  17. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I'm really not.

    My point was that (in Calvinistic theology) if God has elected an individual, then he or she will certainly come to faith. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm saying a Calvinist would not evangelize (like a hyper-Calvinist might) or that a Calvinist wouldn't care about doing things correctly.

    Rather, I fail to see the true "danger" (in a salvific sense) of false conversion, as God would eventually find a way to redeem every one of his elect, even if the gospel isn't correctly presented initially.
     
    #57 StefanM, Jan 31, 2017
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Whoever is going to be saved will be saved?

    Hmm, this thread has made me dizzy.

    HankD
     
    #58 HankD, Jan 31, 2017
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Lesson learned: Never develop your theology from a Baptist Debate Blog (well, almost never).

    If it makes you dizzy.

    HankD
     
    #59 HankD, Jan 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
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  20. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I understand, Hank.
    I was just trying to highlight the fact that election refers to those who believe upon Christ and endure to the end - and thus share in the inheritance of Christ

    Romans 8:17 says that we are joint heirs with Christ if we suffer with him. And then Paul went on about election and predestination.

    There will be plenty of people who have believed upon Christ, and will be with him forever more - but are not among the elect.
     
    #60 JamesL, Jan 31, 2017
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