Covenant Theology Confusion

[The Biblicist]

Reformed Covenant Theology is based upon confusing the type with the antitype. The antitype is the "everlasting covenant" (Heb. 12:20; Rom. 8:28-37; Eph. 1:4-14; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2 Thes. 2:13) made between the three Persons of the Trinity before the world began before man existed and therefore could not possibly include man as a covenant party or responsible covenant participant and therefore man is always the recipient or object of this covenant and never a covenant party with covenant obligations to perform.

The type is most clearly seen in the covenant with Israel. Israel is a type of God's people, circumcision is a type of new birth in order to be part of Israel (type of the family of God). The tabernacle and its ordinances are types of God's salvation. The exodus and passover are types of salvation out of the world.

Reformed Covenant Theology is the unholy MIXTURE of the type with the antitype. Roman Catholicism and all sacramentalist theology is a MIXTURE of the type with the antitype.

The "new perspective" by NT Wright is a MIXTURE of the type with the antitype whereby the Law is denied its biblical role as God's JUDICIARY STANDARD for defining righteousness and unrighteousness, good and evil and its JUDICIARY role as the basis for LEGAL DECLARATION OF CONDEMNATION and LEGAL DECLARATION OF JUSTIFICATION.

All these unholy MIXTURES between type and antitype pervert the true gospel of Christ and promote "another gospel" that is no gospel at all.

The "everlasting" covenant of God is an eternal covenant or a covenant that existed prior to the foundation of the world as a product of the eternal purpose of redemption wherein man is only the OBJECT or BENEFICIARY of this covenant ("WHOM he...THEM he also..."). In TIME and SPACE this covenant is made with INDIVIDUALS in the sense of application through faith in the gospel (Acts 10:43) as in the case of David (1 Sam. 25:7) who was part of the COVENANT TYPE as an Israelite but his LITERAL salvation was due to the UNCONDITIONAL "everlasting covenant":

Although my house be not so with God; yet he has made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.- 2 Sam.23:5

This is the same covenant repeated by Isaiah for INDIVIDUAL salvation within Israel as a COVENANT TYPE of people in connection with faith in the gospel in Isaiah 53-55:

Incline your ear, and come to me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5 Behold, you shall call a nation that you know not, and nations that knew not you shall run to you because of the LORD your God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he has glorified you.
6 ¶ Seek you the LORD while he may be found, call you on him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. - Isa.55

This is the same UNCONDITIONAL covenant presented to those already in a COVENANT TYPE when Peter preached to Israelites in Acts:

God has fulfilled the same to us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. - Acts 13

This is the same UNCONDITIONAL covenant of grace made with Abraham as the EXAMPLE for all who are "of faith" between Genesis and Revelation - Rom. 4:1-25; Gal. 3:6-17.

The everlasting covenant has its ultimate goal the glory of God establishing his rule in and through a new humanity in a new heaven and earth, vindicating His law and establishing it within the new humanity as the ruling PRINCIPLE OF LOVE.

 

[Covenanter]

Before critiquing Reformed Covenant Theology we need to understand Biblical Covenant Theology.
I will be returning here.

 

[Aaron]

Reformed Covenant Theology is based upon confusing the type with the antitype. The antitype is the "everlasting covenant" (Heb. 12:20; Rom. 8:28-37; Eph. 1:4-14; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2 Thes. 2:13) made between the three Persons of the Trinity before the world began before man existed and therefore could not possibly include man as a covenant party or responsible covenant participant and therefore man is always the recipient or object of this covenant and never a covenant party with covenant obligations to perform.

The type is most clearly seen in the covenant with Israel. Israel is a type of God's people, circumcision is a type of new birth in order to be part of Israel (type of the family of God). The tabernacle and its ordinances are types of God's salvation. The exodus and passover are types of salvation out of the world.

Reformed Covenant Theology is the unholy MIXTURE of the type with the antitype. Roman Catholicism and all sacramentalist theology is a MIXTURE of the type with the antitype.

The "new perspective" by NT Wright is a MIXTURE of the type with the antitype whereby the Law is denied its biblical role as God's JUDICIARY STANDARD for defining righteousness and unrighteousness, good and evil and its JUDICIARY role as the basis for LEGAL DECLARATION OF CONDEMNATION and LEGAL DECLARATION OF JUSTIFICATION.

All these unholy MIXTURES between type and antitype pervert the true gospel of Christ and promote "another gospel" that is no gospel at all.

The "everlasting" covenant of God is an eternal covenant or a covenant that existed prior to the foundation of the world as a product of the eternal purpose of redemption wherein man is only the OBJECT or BENEFICIARY of this covenant ("WHOM he...THEM he also..."). In TIME and SPACE this covenant is made with INDIVIDUALS in the sense of application through faith in the gospel (Acts 10:43) as in the case of David (1 Sam. 25:7) who was part of the COVENANT TYPE as an Israelite but his LITERAL salvation was due to the UNCONDITIONAL "everlasting covenant":

Although my house be not so with God; yet he has made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.- 2 Sam.23:5

This is the same covenant repeated by Isaiah for INDIVIDUAL salvation within Israel as a COVENANT TYPE of people in connection with faith in the gospel in Isaiah 53-55:

Incline your ear, and come to me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5 Behold, you shall call a nation that you know not, and nations that knew not you shall run to you because of the LORD your God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he has glorified you.
6 ¶ Seek you the LORD while he may be found, call you on him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. - Isa.55

This is the same UNCONDITIONAL covenant presented to those already in a COVENANT TYPE when Peter preached to Israelites in Acts:

God has fulfilled the same to us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. - Acts 13

This is the same UNCONDITIONAL covenant of grace made with Abraham as the EXAMPLE for all who are "of faith" between Genesis and Revelation - Rom. 4:1-25; Gal. 3:6-17.

The everlasting covenant has its ultimate goal the glory of God establishing his rule in and through a new humanity in a new heaven and earth, vindicating His law and establishing it within the new humanity as the ruling PRINCIPLE OF LOVE.

I don't know about NT Wright, but you need to start with the proper definition of Covenant Theology before you can critique it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Before critiquing Reformed Covenant Theology we need to understand Biblical Covenant Theology.
I will be returning here.

Classic or the New Covenant theology?

 

[Covenanter]

Classic or the New Covenant theology?

Covenant theology is essential for understanding Scripture. Scripture is divided into Old & New Testaments/Covenants, with an all-pervading Everlasting Covenant.

Let's start with:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

 

[Yeshua1]

Covenant theology is essential for understanding Scripture. Scripture is divided into Old & New Testaments/Covenants, with an all-pervading Everlasting Covenant.

Let's start with:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

the standard version of CT, or the NCT?

 

[Grasshopper]

Helpful perhaps:

http://www.ourelement.org/about/what-we-believe/dispensationalism-covenant-and-new-covenant-theology

 

[The Biblicist]

Covenant theology is essential for understanding Scripture. Scripture is divided into Old & New Testaments/Covenants, with an all-pervading Everlasting Covenant.

Let's start with:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.​

Scripture is not divided into Old and New Covenants. That is the work of a printer over a thousand years after the completion of the Biblical canon. Indeed, the apostles used the term "scripture" for both the prophetic scriptures before Christ as well as their own writings. They never divided scripture into "old" versus "new."

 

[The Biblicist]

Helpful perhaps:

http://www.ourelement.org/about/what-we-believe/dispensationalism-covenant-and-new-covenant-theology

Interesting, but I differ with them over several issues. I agree that "covenant" theology in a Biblical sense deals with relationships. However, the everlasting covenant is a relationship with in the Godhead with regard to obligations each Divine Person commits Himself unto for the salvation of the elect.

All other covenants made between God and men are all failures due to the fact that man never is able to keep his part and are thus lessons why salvation must be unconditional and by the everlasting covenant in all ages.

The "old" covenant has its origin with moses and is a earthly administration of Law and Ceremonial type. The Law instructs them in sin and their failure to keep ANY COVENANT, while the ceremonial type instructs them in the unconditional everlasting covenant provided by God. Hence, the law was a school master to reveal to the INDIVIDUAL their sin and then lead the the INDIVIDUAL to faith in the provision of the everlasting covenant and all this PRIOR to the cross. Moreover, the Old Covenant was an EARTHLY administration that provided a earthly framework that is more perfectly applied to the New Covenant earthly administration.

1. Moses vs Christ
2. Mount Sinai vs Mount Calvary
3. Tabernacle/temple vs congregation
4. Public immersion in shekinah glory vs immersion in the Spirit
5. Qualified Levite Ministry vs. qualified congregation ministry
6. Qualified administration of ceremonial ordinances vs baptism/Lord's Supper
7. Commission to the Gentiles vs commission to Gentiles

The Superiority of the New Covenant over the Old is that the "new" administration is restricted to only professing believers whereas the old was for all who TYPIFIED believers. All that the Old predicted IN TYPE, the New fulfilled in Christ, His congregation and its ordinances.

The "new" does not introduce any kind of new salvation but the same gospel (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2) by faith in the same Savior and the same salvation (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Mt. 7:21-23; Rom. 8:8-9). The pre-cross gospel anticipated Christ and was first summarized then through progressive revelation expanded until fulfillment as recorded in the gospel accounts.

There has only been two kinds of mankind from Genesis to Revelation, those "born of the flesh" thus "in the flesh" and those "born of the Spirit" thus "in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:7-9). There has only been one problem since Genesis 3 and that is "spiritual separation" (death) from God which manifested itself in sickness, and physical death and ultimately in the Second Death. There has been only one salvation for that problem since Genesis 3 and that is SPIRITUAL UNION with God which manifests itself in the fruit of the Spirit in daily living by faith and continued life in the Spirit at physical death and heaven as home.

 

[Covenanter]

Helpful perhaps:

http://www.ourelement.org/about/what-we-believe/dispensationalism-covenant-and-new-covenant-theology

Informative but WOW !!!

Do any of us believe all the elements of a labelled system?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Informative but WOW !!!

Do any of us believe all the elements of a labelled system?

no ...not me

 

[Yeshua1]

Informative but WOW !!!

Do any of us believe all the elements of a labelled system?

No, as that is why there are those like me that would hold to a calvinist view on Sotierology, but more Baptist as regarding Baptism/Eschatology!

 

[Yeshua1]

Helpful perhaps:

http://www.ourelement.org/about/what-we-believe/dispensationalism-covenant-and-new-covenant-theology

Where do you stand on that?

 

[kyredneck]

Scripture is not divided into Old and New Covenants.

What then would be the scribe's treasure?:

52 And he said unto them, Therefore every scribe who hath been made a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. Mt 13

 

[kyredneck]

Do any of us believe all the elements of a labelled system?

I've met a few here that seem to never think outside of their box of choice.

 

[Yeshua1]

Informative but WOW !!!

Do any of us believe all the elements of a labelled system?

All of us have some parts of our theology messed up, just some much more than others!

 

[The Biblicist]

What then would be the scribe's treasure?:

52 And he said unto them, Therefore every scribe who hath been made a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. Mt 13

This is the conclusion of the parables of the four soils and tares (along with the short parables that merely add further explanation). The "old" and "new" refer to being completely equipped by those who "understand" these parables to meet and deal with anyone who professes to be in the kingdom. Like a householder, he is sufficiently equipped to deal with any circumstance. Like the "scribe" he is well versed in this matter and has the principles to discern between true and false kingdom professors.

 

[kyredneck]

What then would be the scribe's treasure?:

52 And he said unto them, Therefore every scribe who hath been made a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. Mt 13

.... The "old" and "new" refer to being completely equipped by those who "understand" these parables to meet and deal with anyone who professes to be in the kingdom. Like a householder, he is sufficiently equipped to deal with any circumstance. Like the "scribe" he is well versed in this matter and has the principles to discern between true and false kingdom professors.

If that's true, then it's odd that it's precisely the truth the we as students of the word today bring forth out of the scriptures wondrous things from both the new and the old.

I don't agree with your spin of the passage. I believe it to be prophetic of these very days.

 

[The Biblicist]

If that's true, then it's odd that it's precisely the truth the we as students of the word today bring forth out of the scriptures wondrous things from both the new and the old.

I don't agree with your spin of the passage. I believe it to be prophetic of these very days.

I am not spinning anything. In fact, the only spin is coming from you. NOWHERE do writers of scripture divide scripture into "old" versus "new" divisions - NOWHERE!

 

[Aaron]

Scripture is not divided into Old and New Covenants. That is the work of a printer over a thousand years after the completion of the Biblical canon. Indeed, the apostles used the term "scripture" for both the prophetic scriptures before Christ as well as their own writings. They never divided scripture into "old" versus "new."

[Heb 8:13 KJV] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.