Featured Apocalyptic as literary genre and interpreting Revelation

I find this to be reductionist. According to J. Barton Payne (not a dispensationalist), the Olivet Discourse and parts of 1 & 2 Thess. are apocalyptic (Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy, p. 84). Understanding genre is important in any book of the Bible. You wouldn't interpret an epistle like a Gospel, so remember the genre when interpreting Rev. and other apocalyptic books and passages.

 

This is a bit of a drive-by shooting of Covenant Theology. The fact is that Revelation alludes to a vast number of O.T. texts, of which many but by no means all are from Daniel or Ezekiel. By tracing these, not only do the O.T. texts shed light on Revelation but also on occasion, vice versa.

 

Actually, no, it's a generally accepted hermeneutic principle of CT and NCT. What you are describing here is not what I mean. You are talking about interpreting the NT from the quotes of the OT, which is valid.

“NCT follows the error of classic Covenant Theology in subordinating the Old Covenant to the new” (Larry Pettegrew, “The New Covenant and New Covenant Theology,” TMSJ, Fall 2007, p. 195).

 

In a theological discussion, such labels are unhelpful. It is necessary to read the Scriptures & seek to understand them, not to label them.

"Reductionist" implies a straightforward understanding as far as possible, while "apocalyptic" implies prophetic, but those terms do not define whole books, only passsages within books.

The great tendency of covenant theology is to see the whole of Scripture, the whole of God's revelation to man, in terms of an everlasting/eternal covenant relationship, made by the Father, realised by the Son as our covenant surety, and applied by the Holy Spirit.

The elect in all ages/dispensations are "my people" with the relationship "you will be my people, and I will be your God."

Of course God's revelation is progressive.

No. I don't consider "understanding genre" to be of importance, genre follows reading & understanding the Scriptures as written. In over 60 years of Bible study I haven't felt the need for genre. And I don't like the use of "interpret" as it implies that straightforward understanding is inadequate. Of course we can ask the meaning/interpretation of parables, but interpreting is generally making something different from what is written - such as dreams.

Covenant theology is NOT an error. Covenant theology, which defines our relationship with God, is a thread running through all Scripture. This may be best discussed in the Covenant theology thread.

 

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That surely counts as TWO important things.

And arguing the semantics is what this thread has degenerated into. Semantics isn't doctrine.

 

9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17

Five of the heads were HISTORY at the time of the writing.

 

Seems like you've been using the label "preterism" on some threads. Unhelpful?

Actually, "apocalyptic" does indicate the whole book of Rev. according to 1:1.

And again, a label--covenant theology. Other than that, I'm really not sure what point you are making here vis a vis my own post.

So, you don't read letters as letters and Gospels as Gospels and Acts as history? Those are genres, specifically indicated to be so in Scripture. In fact, the Greek title of Revelation is Ἀποκάλυψις, or Apocalypse, as stated so in Rev. 1:2, which is a clear statement of genre.

Now, your 60 years of Bible study are admirable, but they give no authority whatsoever (especially here on the BB), and no guarantee that you are right. So frankly, if I were you, I wouldn't mention it again.

As far as using the word "interpret," to not use it is ridiculous. You have been interpreting ever since you came on the BB.

Yes, CT is in error. It postulates 2 (or 3, depending on the interpreter) covenants which are taught nowhere in the Bible.

And no, I have no desire to post on the thread you mention, and I find it supercilious of you to suggest it.

 

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; Rev 1

Yea, and to shortly come to pass also.

 

Mark 1:1--"The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God"--genre!

Rom. 16:22--"I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord."--genre!

Rev. 1:1--"The Revelation of Jesus Christ"--GENRE!!

 

Rev 1:1 -- "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass" -- TIME INDICATOR!!

 

It is dream literature. Therefore, full of symbolism. Therefore, researching into elucidating dreams and symbolism therein would be paramount.

“...it is only since the end of the nineteenth century that modern psychology...[has] proved empirically the existence of a psyche outside consciousness” (Carl Jung, Aion, Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self, pp. 5-6).

“But if the analyst who is confronted by this dream material uses Freud's original technique of 'free association,' he finds that dreams can eventually be reduced to certain basic patterns” (Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols, p. 26).
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Quite often, the Bible elucidates its own symbols, though. Other times, it does not, and I would highly recommend reading Freud and Jung.

"The poets and philosophers before me discovered the unconscious; what I discovered was the scientific method by which the unconscious can be studied" (Sigmund Freud). ​

 

Yeah...Dispensationalism isn't imposed...

 

I never heard of Larry Pettegrew in my life, and on the basis of that quote, I am not too troubled. NCT devotees can speak for themselves, but Covenant Theology finds unity throughout the Bible. Christ is the key that opens the whole Bible (Colossians 1:24-29) and an understanding of the covenants is essential to understanding just how the key works from Genesis to Revelation.