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Sovereign choice of God part deux

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Like us believing God predestines ppl to hell?
     
    #21 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    We've ALL come a long way brother. :)
     
    #22 kyredneck, Apr 15, 2017
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  3. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Faith is the conduit. For by grace THROUGH faith. Being justified can only happen by God. Being sanctified can only happen by God. Being glorified can only happen by God. God deserves all the Glory, SolI Deo Gloria!
     
    #23 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    What part of God's creation (of humans) do you want to tell him He did a horrible job?
     
    #24 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  5. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I agree..I am guilty of that.
     
    #25 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
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  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Yet, if faith comes from us, logically speaking, we justified ourselves.

    Salvation, which is regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification(I say this because these are all linked together, imo), come from God.
     
    #26 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So-called "double predestination" would be one example. :rolleyes:
     
    #27 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2017
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Why get nasty and make false accusations? We are "fearfully and wonderfully made." Our depravity is our own fault. The fall ruined our bodies, it ruined our souls, and it ruined our spirits.

    So, I ask again, What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, was not affected by the fall and is thus righteous enough to approach God on its own merits, without the sacrifice of Christ?
     
    #28 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2017
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  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Faith has to have an Object. Can someone have "faith" in something other than God? (Put NOT your trust in men...) Where is faith a supernatural gift besides your proof text of Eph. 2:8? Galatians 5 is faithfulness (that's not saving faith).
     
    #29 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  10. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    No nastiness intended. I'm not the one who is telling others what all the "Fall" entails. Romans 1 says we suppress the truth of God when we KNOW He is real. So clearly we aren't as depraved as I'm being told.
     
    #30 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But faith comes by HEARING(external Source not inward possession) the word.[Romans 10:17] Even the deaf can hear when God speaks through sign language.
     
    #31 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    This shows our open rebellion towards Him. We have the Law written on our hearts even whilst unbelievers.
     
    #32 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Also, we see we are spiritually dead, the ground is cursed, women want to rule over men. Why add to the Word of God? Those who don't have "spiritual ears to hear" were the prideful arrogant religious leaders of the day. We can extrapolate that pride and haughtiness can stop up someone's hearing of the Truth of God's Gospel. Even Paul was humbled when he encountered the Lord.
     
    #33 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    We're not adding to the word. We're expounding it.
     
    #34 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    So, if they weren't prideful and arrogant they would have had ears to hear with? God can't overcome those two obstacles in one's life?
     
    #35 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Ok? I'm not arguing that principle at all.

    Romans 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

    Consequently to what?

    Romans 10:13-14 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
    How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?

    Romans 10:16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?"
     
    #36 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Take it up with God. He said He gives grace to the humble but resists the proud.
     
    #37 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Brother, we were all prideful and arrogant as unregenerate. We thought we were doing fine w/o God in our lives. That is pride and arrogance.
     
    #38 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Now, why do some accept and others reject?
     
    #39 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Brother, I know what exegesis is all about and bad hermeneutics can undo all of your exegetical work.
     
    #40 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
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