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Sovereign choice of God part deux

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Your comprehension is failing you. I'm saying what the Bible says GOD SAID is our responsibility. He said repent. He said believe. He said humble yourself. He said turn. He said bow. He said look to Him and live. He said trust in Him. He said give your life to Him.

    If you have a problem with the commands of God, take it up with Him.
     
    #61 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  2. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I'm not trying to condemn you...I was wanting to follow up with wanting to know how do people respond?
     
    #62 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    By His enabling Grace, not by our own sin sick flesh.

    Nobody here has a problem with the commands of God. The problem is that some think they can please God in the flesh.

    Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
     
    #63 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2017
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  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Show me where it says either a. He doesn't give us the ability to do those things. Or B. He has taken away the ability to do those things. In Scripture.
     
    #64 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  5. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Also, I'm not saying God hasn't enabled us. I just don't call that regeneration, folks
     
    #65 JonShaff, Apr 15, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I don't understand the question. Could you clarify, please?
     
    #66 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2017
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How can spiritual dead sinners do any of those things on their own?
     
    #67 Yeshua1, Apr 15, 2017
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If it is not regeneration, giving us the ability to believe, repent, and obey, what is it?
     
    #68 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2017
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God enabling Grcae towards us who get saved is regeneration...
     
    #69 Yeshua1, Apr 15, 2017
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Guess that would be ole prevelient Grace!
     
    #70 Yeshua1, Apr 15, 2017
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    My comprehension is just fine, thank you.

    God commanded the Jews to keep the Law, knowing they could not.

    God commands us to be holy, as He is holy.

    God commands us to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.

    None of us could do those commands.

    However, the Christ did. He kept the whole Law, not breaking even one jot or tittle therein.

    He is holy, as He is God.

    He loved(loves) the Father with all His heart, soul, mind and strength.

    He did for His ppl what they could not do. He lived in their stead, stood condemned in their place, died their death, and rose again for their justification.

    Now, I am in Christ, and everything Christ did has been imputed to me. It is as if I had kept the Law perfectly, love Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.

    I could not do this, so Jesus did it for little old me. Not one thing can I, or anyone else, add to the FINISHED work of Christ.

    If I add ANYTHING, then that crosswork of the Christ was NOT finished on Calvary, but when I did 'something'.
     
    #71 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hey, Calvin/Luther and especially paul would be proud!
     
    #72 Yeshua1, Apr 15, 2017
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Thank you my Brother. God has brought me from a really horrible theological trainwreck.
     
    #73 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hey, I was for over a decade a teaching elder in the AOG, and awhile in freewill baptist, so preaching to the club!
     
    #74 Yeshua1, Apr 15, 2017
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is a good point. It demonstrates the fallacy of using such analogies literally. The “spiritual dead” are not passive in their rejection of the message of the gospel (in fact, Peter’s sermon in Acts assigns guilt to the Jews who crucified Christ for their rejection; and Paul assigns guilt for Gentile rejection of what is understood). So they must hear the gospel in some manner. It is that they reject what is heard. They do not understand the gospel for what it is.

    I agree with the Calvinists (and Classic Arminianism) that men cannot believe without the work of the Spirit towards belief. But you are right that the analogy of a “spiritual corpse” certainly has its limitations, and those limitations are often exceeded in debate.
     
    #75 JonC, Apr 15, 2017
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  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    nekros: dead
    Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
    Part of Speech: Adjective
    Transliteration: nekros
    Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
    Short Definition: dead, a corpse
    Definition: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
    HELPS Word-studies
    3498 nekrós (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") – dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.
    3498 /nekrós ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek.

    Nope, nekros means dead, lifeless, corpse, &c.
     
    #76 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2017
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What I mean is his point is right, that if we do not understand allegory and metaphor we can come up with all sorts of doctrine. This is apparent when you take "spiritually dead" (e.g., "let the dead bury the dead") in a more literal manner than is presented in Scripture (e.g., a corpse). A corpse cannot do anything to his benefit, this is true. But a corpse also cannot sin.

    There are many words which are used in this way. When we take the Supper, the bread is not literally Jesus' flesh (although the word used is σῶμα, meaning Jesus' "body") and the wine is not literally blood (although the word αἷμα is used, and αἷμα means "blood"). We do not literally carry crosses when we take up our crosses (although those are the words uses) and we do not literally cut off body parts that offend us (although the language, in your mode of interpretation, may indicate otherwise).
     
    #77 JonC, Apr 16, 2017
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  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Wait! What? Are you saying spiritual death is an allegory or a metaphor?

    What, in Ephesians 2:1-10 gives us any indication that being "dead in our trespasses and sins" is an allegory or a metaphor?

    When the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense.

    There is only one time that we know Paul is speaking allegorically in his letters and it is found in Galatians. There he tells us that he is speaking allegorically. In Ephesians 2 there is no indication that Paul is presenting an allegory.
    No, you are forcing an allegory upon the passage in order to sustain your own presupposition. This is poor hermeneutics on your part.
     
    #78 MennoSota, Apr 16, 2017
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Brother, I did a 'copy and paste' of this post and placed in the 'Nekros thread' so I can address it there.
     
    #79 SovereignGrace, Apr 16, 2017
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I did a 'copy and paste' of this post and addressed it in the 'nekros thread'.
     
    #80 SovereignGrace, Apr 16, 2017
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