Sovereign choice of God part deux

[SovereignGrace]

I can't help but think there is plenty of guilt to go around. How often have you assumed "Calvinists" believe something you think they believe but, in fact, don't believe that at all? "_

Like us believing God predestines ppl to hell?

 

[kyredneck]

Aye, that I have. That I have.

We've ALL come a long way brother.

 

[JonShaff]

Well, we are justified by faith. If justification is a gift from God, and it is, then faith is also a gift from God.

Faith is the conduit. For by grace THROUGH faith. Being justified can only happen by God. Being sanctified can only happen by God. Being glorified can only happen by God. God deserves all the Glory, SolI Deo Gloria!

 

[JonShaff]

What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, was not affected by the fall and is thus righteous enough to approach God on its own merits, without the sacrifice of Christ?

What part of God's creation (of humans) do you want to tell him He did a horrible job?

 

[JonShaff]

I can't help but think there is plenty of guilt to go around. How often have you assumed "Calvinists" believe something you think they believe but, in fact, don't believe that at all? "_

I agree..I am guilty of that.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Faith is the conduit. For by grace THROUGH faith. Being justified cannot only happen by God. Being sanctified can only happen by God. Being glorified can only happen by God. God deserves all the Glory, SolI Deo Gloria!

Yet, if faith comes from us, logically speaking, we justified ourselves.

Salvation, which is regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification(I say this because these are all linked together, imo), come from God.

 

[TCassidy]

Like us believing God predestines ppl to hell?

So-called "double predestination" would be one example.

 

[TCassidy]

What part of God's creation (of humans) do you want to tell him He did a horrible job?

Why get nasty and make false accusations? We are "fearfully and wonderfully made." Our depravity is our own fault. The fall ruined our bodies, it ruined our souls, and it ruined our spirits.

So, I ask again, What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, was not affected by the fall and is thus righteous enough to approach God on its own merits, without the sacrifice of Christ?

 

[JonShaff]

Yet, if faith comes from us, logically speaking, we justified ourselves.

Salvation, which is regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification(I say this because these are all linked together, imo), come from God.

Faith has to have an Object. Can someone have "faith" in something other than God? (Put NOT your trust in men...) Where is faith a supernatural gift besides your proof text of Eph. 2:8? Galatians 5 is faithfulness (that's not saving faith).

 

[JonShaff]

Why get nasty and make false accusations? We are "fearfully and wonderfully made." Our depravity is our own fault. The fall ruined our bodies, it ruined our souls, and it ruined our spirits.

So, I ask again, What part of man, body, soul, or spirit, was not affected by the fall and is thus righteous enough to approach God on its own merits, without the sacrifice of Christ?

No nastiness intended. I'm not the one who is telling others what all the "Fall" entails. Romans 1 says we suppress the truth of God when we KNOW He is real. So clearly we aren't as depraved as I'm being told.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Faith has to have an Object. Can someone have "faith" in something other than God? (Put NOT your trust in men...) Where is faith a supernatural gift besides your proof text of Eph. 2:8? Galatians 5 is faithfulness (that's not saving faith).

But faith comes by HEARING(external Source not inward possession) the word.[Romans 10:17] Even the deaf can hear when God speaks through sign language.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No nastiness intended. I'm not the one who is telling others what all the "Fall" entails. Romans 1 says we suppress the truth of God when we KNOW He is real. So clearly we aren't as depraved as I'm being told.

This shows our open rebellion towards Him. We have the Law written on our hearts even whilst unbelievers.

 

[JonShaff]

Also, we see we are spiritually dead, the ground is cursed, women want to rule over men. Why add to the Word of God? Those who don't have "spiritual ears to hear" were the prideful arrogant religious leaders of the day. We can extrapolate that pride and haughtiness can stop up someone's hearing of the Truth of God's Gospel. Even Paul was humbled when he encountered the Lord.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Also, we see we are spiritually dead, the ground is cursed, women want to rule over men. Why add to the Word of God? Those who don't have "spiritual ears to hear" were the prideful arrogant religious leaders of the day. We can extrapolate that pride and haughtiness can stop up someone's hearing of the Truth of God's Gospel. Even Paul was humbled when he encountered the Lord.

We're not adding to the word. We're expounding it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Also, we see we are spiritually dead, the ground is cursed, women want to rule over men. Why add to the Word of God? Those who don't have "spiritual ears to hear" were the prideful arrogant religious leaders of the day. We can extrapolate that pride and haughtiness can stop up someone's hearing of the Truth of God's Gospel. Even Paul was humbled when he encountered the Lord.

So, if they weren't prideful and arrogant they would have had ears to hear with? God can't overcome those two obstacles in one's life?

 

[JonShaff]

But faith comes by HEARING(external Source not inward possession) the word.[Romans 10:17] Even the deaf can hear when God speaks through sign language.

Ok? I'm not arguing that principle at all.

Romans 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

Consequently to what?

Romans 10:13-14 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?

Romans 10:16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?"

 

[JonShaff]

So, if they weren't prideful and arrogant they would have had ears to hear with? God can't overcome those two obstacles in one's life?

Take it up with God. He said He gives grace to the humble but resists the proud.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Also, we see we are spiritually dead, the ground is cursed, women want to rule over men. Why add to the Word of God? Those who don't have "spiritual ears to hear" were the prideful arrogant religious leaders of the day. We can extrapolate that pride and haughtiness can stop up someone's hearing of the Truth of God's Gospel. Even Paul was humbled when he encountered the Lord.

Brother, we were all prideful and arrogant as unregenerate. We thought we were doing fine w/o God in our lives. That is pride and arrogance.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok? I'm not arguing that principle at all.

Romans 10:17 Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

Consequently to what?

Romans 10:13-14 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?

Romans 10:16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?"

Now, why do some accept and others reject?

 

[JonShaff]

We're not adding to the word. We're expounding it.

Brother, I know what exegesis is all about and bad hermeneutics can undo all of your exegetical work.