Christianity and Paganism - What is the Truth?

[Yeshua1]

Why would you say that water represents Jesus? It seems to me that water is one of the representations of the Holy Spirit.
In Rev 22:1 the "water of life" is the Holy Spirit. The water that Jesus was going to give the woman at the well was the Holy Spirit. In John 3:5 Jesus says, "water and Spirit" . In baptism they are one and the same. You can't use Coca Cola to baptize.

In John 7:37 he says, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive"

Believe on the Lord jesus, confess that he is raised and is Lord, and are now saved, nothing else needed, correct?

 

[saved by grace]

What an Unbiblical mess Catholicism is.

That is biblical and when you understand that you will actually understand what the bible is saying and you will not longer have to dismiss clear statements such as "baptism now saves you."

 

[saved by grace]

You are claiming to be God, sbg. Your understanding of grace is not biblical.
God is full of grace. He gives us what we don't deserve every moment of every hour. He took us out of deadness in our trespasses and sins, and he gave us new life in Christ our Redeemer.
Just as grace is not earned, grace can never be unearned, causing God to revoke his gift. If it were so, salvation would be by our own works, not by the good and gracious gift of God. Jesus would not have needed to die on our behalf. We could have worked our way to the mark through our own efforts.
But...that was not possible. We died in our sinful effort and fell short of the mark. We needed God to do what we could not, ourselves, do. We needed God to give us what we did not deserve. We needed God's grace, which is a gift from God, not from our works, so that we cannot boast of our efforts.

You propose a method by which you can boast. Added to this, you claim to be God by virtue of union with Christ. Both claims are heretical on your part.

God is "full of what we don't deserve?"

Grace can't be lost? " Galatians 5:3-4 says exactly that. These Christians had fallen from Grace. They had cut themselves off from Christ.

You can't fall from Grace if you aren't first IN Grace. You can't be cut off from Christ if you aren't first IN Christ.

"Once again I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire law. 4 You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

You are correct. Grace is a gift of God, not from our works just as I said.

Jesus' death on the cross merited FOR US the Grace necessary for salvation. He sacrifice was absolutely necessary.

 

[saved by grace]

Believe on the Lord jesus, confess that he is raised and is Lord, and are now saved, nothing else needed, correct?

You don't have to repent?............you don't have to confess your sins?

Don't make your theology from isolated verses. Use all of the Word of God.

 

[saved by grace]

Paul stated that htere is but ONE mediator between us and God, Jesus!

Amen.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That is biblical and when you understand that you will actually understand what the bible is saying and you will not longer have to dismiss clear statements such as "baptism now saves you."

Yes, it is grossly Unbiblical and the problem with embracing "baptism now saves you" is that I would have to ignore the rest of the passage and its context which shows that it isn't baptism which saves us, as well as the analogy of scripture.

 

[saved by grace]

That happens at time of faith in jesus, when born again!

No, that happens when we are "washed" in the waters of Baptism just as Paul said in 1 Cor. 6: 11

We are born again in water baptism just as Jesus said. This is when we receive the Grace that makes us born again.

"Truly, Truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

 

[JohnDeereFan]

[QUOTE="saved by grace, post: 2311447, member: 9959]Don't make your theology from isolated verses. Use all of the Word of God.[/QUOTE]

Says the guy who just said we should embrace one out of context phrase and ignore the rest of the passage, as well as the analogy of scripture.

 

[saved by grace]

Yes, it is grossly Unbiblical and the problem with embracing "baptism now saves you" is that I would have to ignore the rest of the passage and its context which shows that it isn't baptism which saves us, as well as the analogy of scripture.

It is the Grace received in baptism which saves us. It's amazing that the Holy Spirit inspired Peter to say baptism now saves you and you would rather hold on to what someone, who was not inspired, said 17 centuries later!

 

[saved by grace]

[QUOTE="saved by grace, post: 2311447, member: 9959]Don't make your theology from isolated verses. Use all of the Word of God.

Says the guy who just said we should embrace one out of context phrase and ignore the rest of the passage, as well as the analogy of scripture.[/QUOTE]
Show me how that is out of context with all of Scripture.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

No, that happens when we are "washed" in the waters of Baptism just as Paul said in 1 Cor. 6: 11

We are born again in water baptism just as Jesus said. This is when we receive the Grace that makes us born again.

"Truly, Truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

First of all, Jesus never said we're born again in baptism. Cornelius is a good example of somebody who was saved before he was baptized.

Second, how do you explain all of the Catholics you insist were "born again" who live their entire lives without showing any fruit or evidence of having received the new nature that is given upon regeneration.

Third, if a Catholic is born again when he is baptized, then why doesn't he have to be re-baptized every time he loses his salvation?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Show me how that is out of context with all of Scripture.

Ephesians 2:8-10 - saved by grace through faith, not of works

 

[MennoSota]

God is "full of what we don't deserve?"

Grace can't be lost? " Galatians 5:3-4 says exactly that. These Christians had fallen from Grace. They had cut themselves off from Christ.

You can't fall from Grace if you aren't first IN Grace. You can't be cut off from Christ if you aren't first IN Christ.

"Once again I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire law. 4 You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

You are correct. Grace is a gift of God, not from our works just as I said.

Jesus' death on the cross merited FOR US the Grace necessary for salvation. He sacrifice was absolutely necessary.

The context in Galatians shows your commentary to be wrong.

Galatians 5:1-5
[1]So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.
[2]Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you.
[3]I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.
[4]For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.
[5]But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.

Notice that your attempt to be saved by works is condemned by Paul. He tells you that you have fallen away from teaching grace. This is precisely the error that the Roman church has fallen into. It, and you, remove grace and make salvation be attained by works. Sbg, your passage in Galatians 5 condemns your position rather than promoting your position.

 

[HankD]

That is biblical and when you understand that you will actually understand what the bible is saying and you will not longer have to dismiss clear statements such as "baptism now saves you."

Douay-Rheims
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

HankD

 

[saved by grace]

Ephesians 2:8-10 - saved by grace through faith, not of works

How does that contradict that we are saved when we are baptized? The grace that saves is received to those who "believe and are baptized" just as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said.

Seems you don't trust Jesus. Didn't He know we are saved by grace? Faith comes by God moving us to believe (Active Grace) and when we are baptized we receive the Grace that saves (Sanctifying Grace)

There is no contradiction. Both faith and baptism are works of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

You don't have to repent?............you don't have to confess your sins?

Don't make your theology from isolated verses. Use all of the Word of God.

That is after I am saved though!

 

[saved by grace]

First of all, Jesus never said we're born again in baptism. Cornelius is a good example of somebody who was saved before he was baptized.

Second, how do you explain all of the Catholics you insist were "born again" who live their entire lives without showing any fruit or evidence of having received the new nature that is given upon regeneration.

Third, if a Catholic is born again when he is baptized, then why doesn't he have to be re-baptized every time he loses his salvation?

Of course Jesus said we are born again in baptism. Read John 3!
He told Nicodemus we must be born again and then he tells him how that happens, "Unless one is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."

How do I explain all the Catholics AND Protestants who live their entire lives without showing any fruit or evidence of having received the new nature that is given upon regeneration!

Free will. We can either continue to accept or reject the love of God that has been infuse into our hearts.

How do you explain the millions of Catholics for the last 2,000 years that have shown exceptional fruit in their lives?

When was Cornelius born again? How do you know he was saved before he was baptized?

 

[Yeshua1]

How does that contradict that we are saved when we are baptized? The grace that saves is received to those who "believe and are baptized" just as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said.

Seems you don't trust Jesus. Didn't He know we are saved by grace? Faith comes by God moving us to believe (Active Grace) and when we are baptized we receive the Grace that saves (Sanctifying Grace)

There is no contradiction. Both faith and baptism are works of God.

Faith alone in Jesus saves!

 

[saved by grace]

The context in Galatians shows your commentary to be wrong.

Galatians 5:1-5
[1]So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.
[2]Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you.
[3]I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.
[4]For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.
[5]But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.

Notice that your attempt to be saved by works is condemned by Paul. He tells you that you have fallen away from teaching grace. This is precisely the error that the Roman church has fallen into. It, and you, remove grace and make salvation be attained by works. Sbg, your passage in Galatians 5 condemns your position rather than promoting your position.

Oh my goodness. Do you not realize that Paul is speaking about the Judaizers who were claiming that "works" of the Mosaic Law, specifically circumcision, were necessary for salvation? They were Christians. They had God's grace. They were in Christ which is why Paul told them that if they insist that works of the Mosaic Law are necessary they have fallen from Grace.
The Old Covenant is over.
Paul is not even addressing good works given to us by God that we were created in Christ Jesus to do. He tells us how important those are in Romans 2:6-7

 

[saved by grace]

Faith alone in Jesus saves!

Grace which comes from Christ is what saves.