Featured Indulgences

The church is Christ. It doesn't reside with its headquarters in Rome.
How else does the body of Christ discern when a religious group is wrong?
The example of using scripture to examine religious teachings (tradition) is found in Jesus. Jesus quoted scripture as his source in declaring the Jewish rulers to be wrong. God's word superceded traditional teaching of the Temple leaders, scribes and Jewish rulers. In essence, Jesus invoked "Sola Scriptura" when addressing the leaders. This is precisely what the Reformers did with a corrupt religious group in Rome.

 

"The most certain form of baptism is child baptism. For an adult might deceive and come to Christ as a Judas and have himself baptized. But a child cannot deceive. He comes to Christ in baptism, as John came to him, and as the children were brought to him, that his word and work might be effective in them, move them, and make them holy, because his Word and work cannot be without fruit. Yet it has this effect alone in the child. Were it to fail here it would fail everywhere and be in vain, which is impossible." -- Martin Luther


"8. Every one must now see that pædobaptism, which receives such strong support from Scripture, is by no means of human invention. Nor is there anything plausible in the objection, that we nowhere read of even one infant having been baptised by the hands of the apostles. For although this is not expressly narrated by the Evangelists, yet as they are not expressly excluded when mention is made of any baptised family (Acts 16:15, 32), what man of sense will argue from this that they were not baptised? If such kinds of argument were good, it would be necessary, in like manner, to interdict women from the Lord’s Supper, since we do not read that they were ever admitted to it in the days of the apostles. But here we are contented with the rule of faith. For when we reflect on the nature of the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper, we easily judge who the persons are to whom the use of it is to be communicated. The same we observe in the case of baptism. For, attending to the end for which it was instituted, we clearly perceive that it is not less applicable to children than to those of more advanced years, and that, therefore, they cannot be deprived of it without manifest fraud to the will of its divine Author. The assertion which they disseminate among the common people, that a long series of years elapsed after the resurrection of Christ, during which pædobaptism was unknown, is a shameful falsehood, since there is no writer, however ancient, who does not trace its origin to the days of the apostles." -- John Calvin Book IV Institutes




"10. We have said that the symbols by which the Church is discerned are the preaching of the word and the observance of the sacraments, for these cannot anywhere exist without producing fruit and prospering by the blessing of God. I say not that wherever the word is preached fruit immediately appears; but that in every place where it is received, and has a fixed abode, it uniformly displays its efficacy. Be this as it may, when the preaching of the gospel is reverently heard, and the sacraments are not neglected, there for the time the face of the Church appears without deception or ambiguity 2290and no man may with impunity spurn her authority, or reject her admonitions, or resist her counsels, or make sport of her censures, far less revolt from her, and violate her unity (see Chap. 2 sec. 1, 10, and Chap. 8 sec. 12). For such is the value which the Lord sets on the communion of his Church, that all who contumaciously alienate themselves from any Christian society, in which the true ministry of his word and sacraments is maintained, he regards as deserters of religion. So highly does he recommend her authority, that when it is violated he considers that his own authority is impaired. For there is no small weight in the designation given to her, “the house of God,” “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). By these words Paul intimates, that to prevent the truth from perishing in the world. the Church is its faithful guardian, because God has been pleased to preserve the pure preaching of his word by her instrumentality, and to exhibit himself to us as a parent while he feeds us with spiritual nourishment, and provides whatever is conducive to our salvation. Moreover, no mean praise is conferred on the Church when she is said to have been chosen and set apart by Christ as his spouse, “not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing” (Eph. 5:27), as “his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all” (Eph. 1:23). Whence it follows, that revolt from the Church is denial of God and Christ. Wherefore there is the more necessity to beware of a dissent so iniquitous; for seeing by it we aim as far as in us lies at the destruction of God’s truth, we deserve to be crushed by the full thunder of his anger. No crime can be imagined more atrocious than that of sacrilegiously and perfidiously violating the sacred marriage which the only begotten Son of God has condescended to contract with us." -- John Calvin BOOK IV institutes


Can I hear a AMEN for Calvin and Luther?

 

The point isn't personal opinion when talking about the Roman church. The Roman church leadership and dogmas declare the pope to be the vicar of Christ. You are making up a comparison that is not a comparison at all.

Did the church declare by fiat that the person was damned to hell? Your anecdotal arguments hold very little weight.

There is scripture one can use to make the argument. That is...if one believes in a pretrib rapture.

I don't. I am sharing church dogma, which supercedes what parishioners personally or individually believe. You seem to struggle with acknowledging that the Roman church dogmas and traditions take precedence over parishioner opinion.

One can share from the scripture why those people are wrong. This is what is so great about Sola Scriptura, it sharpens the body of Christ. Iron sharpens iron. God's word is like a two edged sword.

Pastor's are shepherds of the Christ's sheep. They may or may not do an honorable job.

Giving to God and God's shepherds has a strong biblical history in both the Old and New Testament. Scripture has much to say about giving. Sola Scriptura.

People who are in Christ can find the answer in God's word. People who are not in Christ try to come up with disciplines of do not touch, do not handle. They imagine this makes them right with God. (See Colossians 2)

Sola Scriptura

 

Darrell I have stayed on topic. You keep trying to raise the parishioner above the role of the Roman church. You cannot do that. The Roman church doesn't function that way.

 

Jesus never said Jewish teaching was wrong, but that it wasn't followed.

Matthew 23

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

He didn't leave them, he was often kicked out.

You don't hear Jesus say well you guys are a false religion cop out, not even with Samaritans.


Jesus says how a dispute is handled. Never once says crack open the scriptures for authority.


Matthew 18

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.



That's the thing. To handle the situation biblical 100% doesn't mean required to use the bible!


We can quote Calvinist theologians, I love James White, And he will tell you neither JESUS, THE APOSTLES, THE HEARERS of our Lord, nor their immediate successors believe in or practice SOLA SCRIPTURA.

Sola Scriptura is a perfect response to WHERE IS THE CHURCH? Folks in the uknown who don't even believe there is a church out there. Some even say magically make it disapear "spiritual church" that trancends....

But even someone alien to Christianity starting outside of it, He needs someone to IDENTIFY and put the right book in his hands in the first place, Tradition does that.



I believe the bible absolutely true, all of it, I love the scripture, I love every rule in it.

And I hate when people make up rules not found in the bible.

NAMELY, that it has to be in the bible to be christian. The biggest made up rule of all. ITS NOT IN THERE!

Its not even CLOSE!

 

Actually that's where plenty of Saints come from. If you think the Pope is the highest in a hierarchy that is incorrect, it is always God Almighty. The clergy is not superior. The highest rank is Saint. Sometimes they are very much loose cannons they are hunted down by demons AND angels.

Pope is know as servant of servants. The clergy has to protect the unchanging deposit of faith. Titles don't mean anything if you have God on your side.

The highest priority is always love, kindness and compassion.

 

Very well said! Bravo!

 

All the non-orthodox doctrines came about from 1400 to over 1900 years down the road and I don't lend much credence to any of them. People like Luther, Wesley, Zwingli, Calvin, Wycliffe, Smith, White, and Russell all came up with their own particular brand of Christian truth, so which one has the real skinny?

 

This is how the Jewish leaders reacted to Jesus when He spoke scripture to them and showed that their traditions were not in alignment with God's word.

It was shocking to the leaders when Jesus declared "Before Abraham was born, I Am." They trusted in their traditions rather than God and His word.

 

The heretical doctrines that reared up in the early days were effectively dealt with by the Church. Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, to name but a few were rejected by the Church and the faithful believers. For some reason, things really got out of control from the Middle Ages on and that was that.

 

He was NOT referring to the church of Rome!
And the Bible is the FINAL authority on all things regarding doctrine sand practices!

 

Now quote them as regarding how a sinner gets justified before Holy God, and NEITHER would hold the RCC theology regarding that!