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Westminster Confession Of Faith And The Fall Of Man

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndyMartin, May 27, 2017.

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  1. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH (1646)

    "Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtlety and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory." (Chapter 6)

    So, it PLEASED God to permit Adam and Eve to sin against Him by disobeying Him, and then He punishes them!

    God "ORDERED" that they sinned!!!

    "Pleased" = "Feeling or showing pleasure and satisfaction, especially at an event or a situation" (Oxford Dictionary)

    The meaning of "please" in 1586 was, "to be agreeable, to give pleasure". Which would have been the meaning at the time this Confession was made!

    This is PERVERSE! This is CALVINISM!
     
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Your comprehension is poor, which is partly responsible for your bigotry.

    God chose not to destroy Adam and Eve instantly. God had a plan to display grace. He started that act of grace with Adam and Eve.

    Somehow by your twisted pretzel logic, you end up despising the acknowledgement of grace expressed in the Confession.

    Please, Andy, get a clue before posting.
     
  3. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Please READ what it actually written and not what you THINK!
     
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I read the confession. Your take on it is not what the Confession is saying. You're wasting people's time with your foolishness.
     
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  5. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    no one asked you to view/comment! :Biggrin:rolleyes:
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    When we read what was actually written and compare it to what you claim, we can see that you are either wrong or deceitful. You claim:
    But it actually says that God permitted them to sin.
    So, the Westminster Divines say that God permitted them to sin, indicating He allowed them to do what they wanted to do.

    You change that to God ordering them to sin.

    Either you lack the reading comprehension displayed by my youngest grandson (aged 8) or you are deliberately deceitful. I prayerfully hope it is the former. :(
     
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  7. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    It is in ENGLISH!

    "God was pleased"

    "to permit, having purposed to order it"
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    <Sigh> It is in Early Modern English of the 1600s.

    Pleased
    Plēzd
    Adjective

    (Archaic) willing to do something.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  9. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    give the source
     
  10. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    "happy and satisfied"
     
  11. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You are aware that word meaning (etymology) and word usage (philology) has changed since the 1600s, are you not?

    It is silly to try to apply 21st century meanings to words used in a 17th century document.

    In the 17th century the word "pleased" meant "willing."

    And once again you have publicly displayed your lack of understanding of the issue you are trying to discuss.

    And still have not answered any of my questions. Still dodging and weaving and throwing up a smoke screen?
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    2.2it pleases", "pleased", etc., "someone to do somethingdated It is someone's choice to do something.
    ‘instead of attending the meeting, it pleased him to go off hunting’

    please - definition of please in English | Oxford Dictionaries
     
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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  15. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    I do know. Show me an example from a dictionary that says this? So the word "ordered" also changed? Not according to my Oxford English dictionary that shows no such change
     
  16. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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  17. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Since this is the Baptist Board, let me quote from the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, 6:1:

    It does say "God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed it to his own glory". No where does it say that God was pleased with sin itself. To say otherwise is to be purposefully obtuse. We see this in Gen. 50:20 when Joseph said to his brothers, "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." God was pleased with the final outcome of the evil (sin) that Joseph's brothers committed, not the sin itself. In James 1, James writes to encourage his readers about the trials and persecutions they faced. Many of these trials were undoubtedly caused by sin. James was not happy with the sin, but the blessings that came in spite of the sin. The book of Job is another example. Job's wife supposed that Job was cursed by God (probably because of his sin), and he should curse God and die (Job 2:9). There are more passages I can cite, but something tells me that they will fall on deaf ears of those who have already closed them.
     
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  18. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    "pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it"

    Not only "pleased", but also "ordered". This is talking of the fall of man, not God using sin after it entered the world!
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God allowed them to do their "free will" thing, and he also had purposed and ordained that there would be something glorious come out from it, namely, the Cross of Christ, and Him one day forever dealing with problems of Evil and sin!
     
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