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Westminster Confession Of Faith And The Fall Of Man

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AndyMartin

AndyMartin

Active Member
THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH (1646)

"Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtlety and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory." (Chapter 6)

So, it PLEASED God to permit Adam and Eve to sin against Him by disobeying Him, and then He punishes them!

God "ORDERED" that they sinned!!!

"Pleased" = "Feeling or showing pleasure and satisfaction, especially at an event or a situation" (Oxford Dictionary)

The meaning of "please" in 1586 was, "to be agreeable, to give pleasure". Which would have been the meaning at the time this Confession was made!

This is PERVERSE! This is CALVINISM!
 
MennoSota

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AndyMartin said:
THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH (1646)

"Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtlety and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory." (Chapter 6)

So, it PLEASED God to permit Adam and Eve to sin against Him by disobeying Him, and then He punishes them!

God "ORDERED" that they sinned!!!

"Pleased" = "Feeling or showing pleasure and satisfaction, especially at an event or a situation" (Oxford Dictionary)

The meaning of "please" in 1586 was, "to be agreeable, to give pleasure". Which would have been the meaning at the time this Confession was made!

This is PERVERSE! This is CALVINISM!
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Your comprehension is poor, which is partly responsible for your bigotry.

God chose not to destroy Adam and Eve instantly. God had a plan to display grace. He started that act of grace with Adam and Eve.

Somehow by your twisted pretzel logic, you end up despising the acknowledgement of grace expressed in the Confession.

Please, Andy, get a clue before posting.
 
AndyMartin

AndyMartin

Active Member
MennoSota said:
Your comprehension is poor, which is partly responsible for your bigotry.

God chose not to destroy Adam and Eve instantly. God had a plan to display grace. He started that act of grace with Adam and Eve.

Somehow by your twisted pretzel logic, you end up despising the acknowledgement of grace expressed in the Confession.

Please, Andy, get a clue before posting.
Click to expand...

Please READ what it actually written and not what you THINK!
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
AndyMartin said:
Please READ what it actually written and not what you THINK!
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When we read what was actually written and compare it to what you claim, we can see that you are either wrong or deceitful. You claim:
AndyMartin said:
God "ORDERED" that they sinned!!!
Click to expand...
But it actually says that God permitted them to sin.
AndyMartin said:
So, it PLEASED God to permit Adam and Eve to sin
Click to expand...

So, the Westminster Divines say that God permitted them to sin, indicating He allowed them to do what they wanted to do.

You change that to God ordering them to sin.

Either you lack the reading comprehension displayed by my youngest grandson (aged 8) or you are deliberately deceitful. I prayerfully hope it is the former. :(
 
AndyMartin

AndyMartin

Active Member
TCassidy said:
When we read what was actually written and compare it to what you claim, we can see that you are either wrong or deceitful. You claim:

But it actually says that God permitted them to sin.


So, the Westminster Divines say that God permitted them to sin, indicating He allowed them to do what they wanted to do.

You change that to God ordering them to sin.

Either you lack the reading comprehension displayed by my youngest grandson (aged 8) or you are deliberately deceitful. I prayerfully hope it is the former. :(
Click to expand...

It is in ENGLISH!

"God was pleased"

"to permit, having purposed to order it"
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
AndyMartin said:
"happy and satisfied"
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You are aware that word meaning (etymology) and word usage (philology) has changed since the 1600s, are you not?

It is silly to try to apply 21st century meanings to words used in a 17th century document.

In the 17th century the word "pleased" meant "willing."

And once again you have publicly displayed your lack of understanding of the issue you are trying to discuss.

And still have not answered any of my questions. Still dodging and weaving and throwing up a smoke screen?
 
Reformed

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Since this is the Baptist Board, let me quote from the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, 6:1:

Although God created man upright and perfect, and gave him a righteous law, which had been unto life had he kept it, and threatened death upon the breach thereof, yet he did not long abide in this honour; Satan using the subtlety of the serpent to subdue Eve, then by her seducing Adam, who, without any compulsion, did willfully transgress the law of their creation, and the command given unto them, in eating the forbidden fruit, which God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.
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It does say "God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed it to his own glory". No where does it say that God was pleased with sin itself. To say otherwise is to be purposefully obtuse. We see this in Gen. 50:20 when Joseph said to his brothers, "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." God was pleased with the final outcome of the evil (sin) that Joseph's brothers committed, not the sin itself. In James 1, James writes to encourage his readers about the trials and persecutions they faced. Many of these trials were undoubtedly caused by sin. James was not happy with the sin, but the blessings that came in spite of the sin. The book of Job is another example. Job's wife supposed that Job was cursed by God (probably because of his sin), and he should curse God and die (Job 2:9). There are more passages I can cite, but something tells me that they will fall on deaf ears of those who have already closed them.
 
AndyMartin

AndyMartin

Active Member
Reformed said:
Since this is the Baptist Board, let me quote from the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, 6:1:



It does say "God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel to permit, having purposed it to his own glory". No where does it say that God was pleased with sin itself. To say otherwise is to be purposefully obtuse. We see this in Gen. 50:20 when Joseph said to his brothers, "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." God was pleased with the final outcome of the evil (sin) that Joseph's brothers committed, not the sin itself. In James 1, James writes to encourage his readers about the trials and persecutions they faced. Many of these trials were undoubtedly caused by sin. James was not happy with the sin, but the blessings that came in spite of the sin. The book of Job is another example. Job's wife supposed that Job was cursed by God (probably because of his sin), and he should curse God and die (Job 2:9). There are more passages I can cite, but something tells me that they will fall on deaf ears of those who have already closed them.
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"pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it"

Not only "pleased", but also "ordered". This is talking of the fall of man, not God using sin after it entered the world!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AndyMartin said:
THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH (1646)

"Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtlety and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory." (Chapter 6)

So, it PLEASED God to permit Adam and Eve to sin against Him by disobeying Him, and then He punishes them!

God "ORDERED" that they sinned!!!

"Pleased" = "Feeling or showing pleasure and satisfaction, especially at an event or a situation" (Oxford Dictionary)

The meaning of "please" in 1586 was, "to be agreeable, to give pleasure". Which would have been the meaning at the time this Confession was made!

This is PERVERSE! This is CALVINISM!
Click to expand...
God allowed them to do their "free will" thing, and he also had purposed and ordained that there would be something glorious come out from it, namely, the Cross of Christ, and Him one day forever dealing with problems of Evil and sin!
 
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