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Featured Did a Calvinist say this?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 9, 2017.

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  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The issue I have with your line of questioning is that it seems to make God look unfair; that God is capricious and mean because God does not save all. We need to understand that one of God's attributes is holiness. God cannot abide sin. Sin cannot enter into His presence. If God is fair than He either needs to save all or save none. That He chooses to save some is an act of mercy and grace. Shall we criticize God for this (Romans 9:21)?
     
    #141 Reformed, Jul 12, 2017
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I believe they can, but how do you "choose" when there is no free will? You and Reformed seem to be saying the exact opposite.
     
    #142 Reynolds, Jul 12, 2017
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  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I don't criticize Him. I just want to be clear on whether God or a man decides whether or not a person can be saved. I seem to be getting different answers from different Calvinists.
     
    #143 Reynolds, Jul 12, 2017
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It depends on what you mean by "free-will". Again, the Canons of Dort (Calvinism) holds that the Fall did not remove from men the human will. Men have the freedom to choose.

    If you mean a libertarian free-will (or a freedom of the will from the influences of human nature, experience, raising, cultural influences, the work of the Holy Spirit, ect.) then I also deny it exists. But this doesn't matter because the freedom to choose is not dependent on being freed from human nature. The choice remains free.
     
    #144 JonC, Jul 12, 2017
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I mean free will like is in your first paragraph. This is why the more I look at Calvinism, the more confusing it gets. I have not found one thing I disagree with you on in this thread. You I am assuming are a Calvinist. What you are saying and what Reformed is saying seems to be very different. Macarthur seems to be completely hard line on the issue. https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/90-296/the-doctrine-of-gods-effectual-call
     
    #145 Reynolds, Jul 12, 2017
  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    What you're getting are different answers from different Calvinists on the oft debated topic of double-predestination. Does God predestine not only the Elect, but also the non-Elect? One camp believes that God does, indeed, predestine who will be saved and who will be damned. The other camp believes that God predestines the Elect, but passes over those who are already in their sins. What is not open for debate is that all people are deserving of hell, and those who are numbered among the Elect are predestined solely as an act of mercy and grace on the part of the Father.
     
    #146 Reformed, Jul 12, 2017
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  7. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Reynolds,

    Here is a brief article by Kevin DeYoung on the topic of supra and infralapsarianism. Before you crazy over the terms, read the short article and it will help add clarity to my previous post. It will sort of let you into the theological debate world between Reformed believers. Here is the article: THEOLOGICAL PRIMER: SUPRALAPSARIANISM AND INFRALAPSARIANISM
     
    #147 Reformed, Jul 12, 2017
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There are different views within Calvinistic soteriology just as there are within free-will theology. I like MacArthur as a pastor but not so much when it comes to theology.
     
    #148 JonC, Jul 12, 2017
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 1 AM Pacific.
     
    #149 Squire Robertsson, Jul 12, 2017
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, I will study on it.
     
    #150 Reynolds, Jul 12, 2017
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Reynolds,

    Since the powers-that-be are going to close the thread, feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion. I am more than happy to continue discussing.

    Thanks.
     
    #151 Reformed, Jul 12, 2017
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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Because "free will" has nothing to do with making choices.

    Everybody, both the saved and the lost, make choices every day.

    But neither have "free will." The lost person's will is in bondage to the law of sin and death. The saved person's will is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

    Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
     
    #152 TCassidy, Jul 12, 2017
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  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I use the term "autonomous free will" to describe the type of free will that we do not have. I prefer to call a believer's free will as a liberated will. As you said, the will of the sinner is in bondage. Once it is freed from bondage (as a result of conversion), it is now liberated, and is able to obey God, something it could not do prior to conversion.
     
    #153 Reformed, Jul 12, 2017
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  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    this thread is closed.
     
    #154 Squire Robertsson, Jul 13, 2017
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