Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

[JonC]

I was a Mason for 35 years (32 degree) and active in Scottish Rite. The first thing that got my attention was a part in the 18th (Rose Croix) "We do not assert that He (referring to Jesus Christ) was God, neither do we deny it, that is a question to be settled else where" Well I do assert that he was, is, and will forever be 100% God. I asked to have my name expunged from all record and was granted that request. There were many of my Christian Brothers in the Masons and most still remain. This did not change my relationship outside of the lodge with any of them.

I just stopped paying my dues. Took them two years to stop sending me calendars.

But this is what I mean by it being secular. I wouldn't expect them to affirm Jesus is God, and at the same time I really didn't expect them to deny it.

When I finished the 18th degree I asked one of the guys about that remark. Come to find out he was Jewish. Anyway, his response was like nailing jello to a wall . In a "not Yoda" voice he said "it means what it means to you".

Oh...here's one that concerned me as well. They had one about judging impartially. In this one, all the actors were judges (or so I was told)..... and I met a DA and the Adjutant General at that degree.

Ahhhh.....fun times with the Freemasons, killing goats and playing with tarot cards.

 

[The Biblicist]

It seems that most Masons experience the superficial secular aspects of Masonism, while the heirarchy looks for those special candidates who are inclined to move into the more darker secrets of Masonism. I have a book written by a 32nd Scottish Rite Mason who states that most Masons do not move up into the upper circles of Masonism but those who do are introduced to Luceiferian doctrination.

Masonism attempts to put more emphasis on the good old boys club and charity works - children's hospitals as a front for its deeper darker secrets which are only for those who work themselves up into the upper circles.

 

[JonC]

It seems that most Masons experience the superficial secular aspects of Masonism, while the heirarchy looks for those special candidates who are inclined to move into the more darker secrets of Masonism. I have a book written by a 32nd Scottish Rite Mason who states that most Masons do not move up into the upper circles of Masonism but those who do are introduced to Luceiferian doctrination.

Masonism attempts to put more emphasis on the good old boys club and charity works - children's hospitals as a front for its deeper darker secrets which are only for those who work themselves up into the upper circles.

What you are talking about is the "Scottish rite", specifically "Master of the Royal Secret" or 32nd degree Mason. I also went through that degree. And no, there are no "deeper" aspects of "Masonism" to be revealed - only a different interpretation of the thing as a whole. The "Scottish Rite" focuses on justice (as a whole) with all religions generally striving for the same thing (in humanistic terms). It narrows down to tolerance of all religions. There is an honorary degree (33rd degree or "Inspector General" within the Scottish Rite as well), but it is not a "working degree".

The York rite (the Royal Arch, Cryptic Masons, and Knights Templar) stays within a Christian theme (which is bad in itself, I suppose). A non-Christian cannot go beyond Cryptic Masons as to do so would equate to "teaching" religion (Knights Templar degree has the candidate affirming Christ as Lord and pledging to defend the Christian faith even to death). But here also, Freemasonry remains secular as this is nothing but nominal Christianity.

Your mistake here is that that you've determined one of the two rites (which were secondary additions to Freemasonry...e.g., fraternal orders within the fraternity) define Freemasonry even though they were later additions. I found both rites "dark"...but the whole thing seems at least a bit dark to me.

The Scottish Rite and the York Rite are not original to Freemasonry.

 

[Berean]

It seems that most Masons experience the superficial secular aspects of Masonism, while the heirarchy looks for those special candidates who are inclined to move into the more darker secrets of Masonism. I have a book written by a 32nd Scottish Rite Mason who states that most Masons do not move up into the upper circles of Masonism but those who do are introduced to Luceiferian doctrination.

Masonism attempts to put more emphasis on the good old boys club and charity works - children's hospitals as a front for its deeper darker secrets which are only for those who work themselves up into the upper circles.

 

[rlvaughn]

A preacher cousin who was not a Mason said he was never called to pastor any church when he got the Masonic handshake from a deacon/the deacons.

I doubt there is a connection here.

He did not doubt it, and was from an era when Freemasonry was much stronger in the South. Also he was not talking about a couple of isolated incidents. He was from a time when churches usually changed pastors every 2 or 3 years, and his ministry spanned about 60 years, I think. (Of course, there were places he stayed longer than that.)

There is no such thing as “Masonic theology” as views on God are not discussed (the whole point is for men to gather in what they have in common and apart from religious division). Your conclusion here is the same as saying “American theology IS NOT Christ alone, which is also antithetical to Christianity", and the same as saying Americanism is a religion because their currency says "In God We Trust", has an "all seeing eye", and opens congress with prayer.

We don't have to make this a semantic debate. We can call it philosophy, principle or whatever you'd like. I think we cannot deny that Freemasonry claims to have "the light" in ways that Americanism, the Country Club and the Kiwanis Club do not. And that light is not Christ, at least not Christ only. I find that problematic.

 

[The Biblicist]

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees-The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the higher degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. "If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (Adonay is the Hebrew name for the Lord) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hated of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? "Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary for light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. "thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil" (Albert Pike, Grand Commander in his instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889; recorded by A.C. De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle - page 588)

Pike's book "morals and Dogma" was given to every member of the southern Jurisdiction from 1900 to 1969 when at that time it was considered too "advanced" for initiate members. A new edition was approved in 2011 and once again it is given to every member of the Southern Jurisdiction. To claim that Pike is merely non-factor in Masonism is nonsense. Pike was the "Sovereign Grand Commander" of the Supreme Council in the Southern Jurisdiction for 33 years. During his time none disputed that his book was the authorized official representation for Masonism and it was dispensed to every member of that jurisdiction with that intent.

 

[Berean]

32 Degree is as high a degree you can rec in AASR. 33rd is Honorary Is a reward not earned.

 

[JonC]

He did not doubt it, and was from an era when Freemasonry was much stronger in the South. Also he was not talking about a couple of isolated incidents. He was from a time when churches usually changed pastors every 2 or 3 years, and his ministry spanned about 60 years, I think. (Of course, there were places he stayed longer than that.)
We don't have to make this a semantic debate. We can call it philosophy, principle or whatever you'd like. I think we cannot deny that Freemasonry claims to have "the light" in ways that Americanism, the Country Club and the Kiwanis Club do not. And that light is not Christ, at least not Christ only. I find that problematic.

I find it problematic as well. It is secular trying to unite men to solve the issues of mankind. By that alone it can be viewed as worldly and "anti-Christ".

My objection has never been an argument for Freemasonry but instead an argument from truth rather than urban legend. As much as we may disagree with Masonry the fact remains that we have brothers in the fraternity who do worship God and who hold to the real gospel of Christ. When our arguments stray from the Cross and Christ alone to "fix what needs fixin" and devolves into propaganda then we become ineffective.

 

[JonC]

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees-The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the higher degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. "If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (Adonay is the Hebrew name for the Lord) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hated of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? "Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary for light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. "thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil" (Albert Pike, Grand Commander in his instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889; recorded by A.C. De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle - page 588)

Pike's book "morals and Dogma" was given to every member of the southern Jurisdiction from 1900 to 1969 when at that time it was considered too "advanced" for initiate members. A new edition was approved in 2011 and once again it is given to every member of the Southern Jurisdiction. To claim that Pike is merely non-factor in Masonism is nonsense. Pike was the "Sovereign Grand Commander" of the Supreme Council in the Southern Jurisdiction for 33 years. During his time none disputed that his book was the authorized official representation for Masonism and it was dispensed to every member of that jurisdiction with that intent.

I had that book. If you take the time to read the introduction it tells you those are Pike's ideas alone, not representative of any one else's view much less the Scottish Rite. In fact, if you are really that interested you can go to a Scottish Rite library and find the same type of thing by different authors offering different meanings.

I am just trying to keep it honest.... even without all the superstition and witch hunting we can see the problems with Masonry.....again, no need to stray from the Cross. But dishonest rebuttals (even with the best intentions and out of honest ignorance) damages our witness.

I'm the same with politics as well. I think when we remain grounded in Christ we avoid the pitfalls of all these distractions.

 

[Yeshua1]

Free Masonry holds that any God is fine and acceptable, just need to hold to a supreme Being, and that when one observes the Mason rites/ways, will be accepted into Heaven!

Denies the uniqueness of Jesus, His salvation on the Cross, resurrection, and that all go to heaven as long as practicing masonry!

 

[Yeshua1]

I land between Christian liberty (which should be given up if people object to the fraternity) and a flat out "it's bad". I wouldn't recommend to anyone they join, but knowing what it is (and isn't) I also wouldn't deny fellowship to anyone based on their membership. I understand some people believe it is a religion and my knowing it isn't will never change their minds. And it can be...as anything can be...a religion if one was to make it such.

But forming such a view based on internet sources and a few books (and, BTW, choosing which ones you are going to believe) seems foreign to the purpose of the local church. A problem here is that too many churches have taken their eyes off of Christ and instead are involving themselves in such silliness.

The reason primary reason I think it is bad is that Christians are to function within a church. I don't believe that it is proper for a believer to link himself with organizations such as the Freemasons, the FOP (I'm a little iffy on this one....but their oath is very similar), the Elks, ect. in order to show the love of man for the world (charity). I believe Christians are to function within the church to show the love of God instead.

The reason I believe this is that we are called to do good works so that the world will see and glorify God. This cannot happen with a secular organization.

They claim to have Gnostic knowledge about God, claim once can be made ready for heaven by their rites/practices, deny Jesus is Lord, deny pretty much the Christianity of the Bible, so why would any belong to it?

 

[JonC]

Free Masonry holds that any God is fine and acceptable, just need to hold to a supreme Being, and that when one observes the Mason rites/ways, will be accepted into Heaven!

Denies the uniqueness of Jesus, His salvation on the Cross, resurrection, and that all go to heaven as long as practicing masonry!

Frermasons have different ideas about heaven (depending on their religion). Freemasonry itself offers no concept of Heaven or the afterlife.

 

[JonC]

They claim to have Gnostic knowledge about God, claim once can be made ready for heaven by their rites/practices, deny Jesus is Lord, deny pretty much the Christianity of the Bible, so why would any belong to it?

Here is where we HAVE to be careful. You just declared that thousands of Christians (and about all who founded our nation) denied Christ as Lord and were not really saved. Having left the security of Christ you ventured into gossip and accused me, and @Berean of denying Christ when we were members of a lodge. How is this falseness any better than the Gnosticism of Freemasonry? Looks like you are Just as bad....maybe worse as I have yet to see a lodge campaigning against a church.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is where we HAVE to be careful. You just declared that thousands of Christians (and about all who founded our nation) denied Christ as Lord and were not really saved. Having left the security of Christ you ventured into gossip and accused me, and @Berean of denying Christ when we were members of a lodge. How is this falseness any better than the Gnosticism of Freemasonry? Looks like you are Just as bad....maybe worse as I have yet to see a lodge campaigning against a church.

I am saying that the dcotrines/practices of Free Masonry are anti christian, not those within it, but those in it need to get out of there!

 

[Yeshua1]

Frermasons have different ideas about heaven (depending on their religion). Freemasonry itself offers no concept of Heaven or the afterlife.

It teaches that those holding to masoci rites/rituals will be ready fro heaven!

 

[JonC]

They claim to have Gnostic knowledge about God, claim once can be made ready for heaven by their rites/practices, deny Jesus is Lord, deny pretty much the Christianity of the Bible, so why would any belong to it?

Actually....let's make this real:

I was a Master Mason, 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason, Knights Templar York Rite Mason, and Past Master. I served a year in each office before being nominated for master of the lodge. I presided over the lodge for a year. Several years later I quit the fraternity.

When did I ever claim to have Gnostic knowledge about God? When did I ever claim that one can be made ready for heaven by Masonic rites or practices? When did I deny Jesus as Lord? When did I deny the Christianity of the Bible?

The answer is NEVER as a Freemason did I deny Christ. Except for being asked to affirm Jesus as Lord in the York Rite, I was never encouraged or discouraged to obtain or hold any type of faith at all.

Do you see why it is so damaging when Christians take the propaganda route to address Freemasonry? You damage the validity of your message (that Freemasonry is not good) when you couple it with things the Mason knows by experience to be false.

Stick to the gospel and the work of the Kingdom. Take the high ground. Avoid idle talk and conspiracy theories...."old wives tales". As a Christian you don't need to go there.

 

[JonC]

It teaches that those holding to masoci rites/rituals will be ready fro heaven!

No, it doesn't.

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually....let's make this real:

I was a Master Mason, 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason, Knights Templar York Rite Mason, and Past Master. I served a year in each office before being nominated for master of the lodge. I presided over the lodge for a year. Several years later I quit the fraternity.

When did I ever claim to have Gnostic knowledge about God? When did I ever claim that one can be made ready for heaven by Masonic rites or practices? When did I deny Jesus as Lord? When did I deny the Christianity of the Bible?

The answer is NEVER as a Freemason did I deny Christ. Except for being asked to affirm Jesus as Lord in the York Rite, I was never encouraged or discouraged to obtain or hold any type of faith at all.

Do you see why it is so damaging when Christians take the propaganda route to address Freemasonry? You damage the validity of your message (that Freemasonry is not good) when you couple it with things the Mason knows by experience to be false.

Stick to the gospel and the work of the Kingdom. Take the high ground. Avoid idle talk and conspiracy theories...."old wives tales". As a Christian you don't need to go there.

You know that Free masonry does teach salvation to those who partake of their rites/practices.
You know that they are an anti christ religion system, cloaked in charity/good works
You know that as Christians, we CANNOT abide in a place that denies jesus is Lord, or that we are saved apart from the Cross of Christ
Again, I am NOT addressing you or any other mason here on a personal level, just asking why even be in a thing that is anti christ at its very core?

My answer to you would be the sane to a christian who willing to partake of say WoF/RCC that teach against the scriptures and real gospel!

 

[JonC]

You know that Free masonry does teach salvation to those who partake of their rites/practices.
You know that they are an anti christ religion system, cloaked in charity/good works
You know that as Christians, we CANNOT abide in a place that denies jesus is Lord, or that we are saved apart from the Cross of Christ
Again, I am NOT addressing you or any other mason here on a personal level, just asking why even be in a thing that is anti christ at its very core?

My answer to you would be the sane to a christian who willing to partake of say WoF/RCC that teach against the scriptures and real gospel!

Please stop posting dishonestly.

I know that Freemasonry tries to unite people who already have their own religious beliefs under a philosophy comprised of symbols. I know that you have read some things about Masonic rituals but have no clue as to their meaning within the lodge. I know that you are wrong to tell me what I know, and I know by experience that your ideas are gossip and that when you repeat them as charges you are sinning (even though you don't realize this).

I know that I have been, up to this point, as open and honest as I know how. I have told you my experience and you have called me a liar. I know that you prefer gossip because it is more interesting (and I agree it is).

But most of all I know that people like you are no less dangerous to the church than is Freemasonry. And I know that I can reject both you and Masonry on biblical grounds, without incorporating an ounce of propaganda. And I know I will stand with you in your opposition to Freemasonry only when you return to biblical ground.

 

[Yeshua1]

Please stop posting dishonestly.

I know that Freemasonry tries to unite people who already have their own religious beliefs under a philosophy comprised of symbols. I know that you have read some things about Masonic rituals but have no clue as to their meaning within the lodge. I know that you are wrong to tell me what I know, and I know by experience that your ideas are gossip and that when you repeat them as charges you are sinning (even though you don't realize this).

I know that I have been, up to this point, as open and honest as I know how. I have told you my experience and you have called me a liar. I know that you prefer gossip because it is more interesting (and I agree it is).

But most of all I know that people like you are no less dangerous to the church than is Freemasonry. And I know that I can reject both you and Masonry on biblical grounds, without incorporating an ounce of propaganda. And I know I will stand with you in your opposition to Freemasonry only when you return to biblical ground.

Is it not solid biblical ground to point ou tthat one cannot be a part of that group, as it does teach and hold to things not compitable with biblical Christianity?

And how have I mispoke on Here Mason theology here?
They hold to a Gnostic view on religious knowledge and wisdom
Teach that God is same for all, just need to find a supreme Being agreeing with
They teach that by one obeying the precepts and practices of the Free masonry, are prepared to enter after death the Celestial lodge
All of this is true, and it makes a Christian forced to co exist with darkness....

What have I misspoke about?
https://www.jashow.org/articles/masonry/masonic-lodge/what-does-masonry-teach-about-christianity/
masonic-lodge/what-does-the-masonic-lodge-teach-its-members-about-jesus/