Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

[JonC]

You know that Free masonry does teach salvation to those who partake of their rites/practices.
You know that they are an anti christ religion system, cloaked in charity/good works
You know that as Christians, we CANNOT abide in a place that denies jesus is Lord, or that we are saved apart from the Cross of Christ
Again, I am NOT addressing you or any other mason here on a personal level, just asking why even be in a thing that is anti christ at its very core?

My answer to you would be the sane to a christian who willing to partake of say WoF/RCC that teach against the scriptures and real gospel!

I don't mean to sound harsh, and apologize if I came off that way. It bothers me when Christians resort to false allegations in their opposition of things even when those things need opposing or when the false allegations are due to ignorance.

Before you make an accusation be VERY sure you are correct and that the accusation needs to be made.

This is true when whether discusding Freemasonry, Calvinism, Arminianism, or anything else. You have no grounds to tell another person what they know or believe.

If you had asked about the meaning or practices of Masons I would have gladly answered. But you didn't. You told us what they believe (what I belived) and you were wrong both in principle and in conclusion.

Anyone who has been a Mason for a substantial time should know that when one says "Freemasonry teaches this" or "Freemasonry believes that" that person is speaking out of ignorance and doesn't grasp the nature (or true danger) of the thing.

 

[JonC]

Is it not solid biblical ground to point ou tthat one cannot be a part of that group, as it does teach and hold to things not compitable with biblical Christianity?

And how have I mispoke on Here Mason theology here?
They hold to a Gnostic view on religious knowledge and wisdom
Teach that God is same for all, just need to find a supreme Being agreeing with
They teach that by one obeying the precepts and practices of the Free masonry, are prepared to enter after death the Celestial lodge
All of this is true, and it makes a Christian forced to co exist with darkness....

What have I misspoke about?
https://www.jashow.org/articles/masonry/masonic-lodge/what-does-masonry-teach-about-christianity/
masonic-lodge/what-does-the-masonic-lodge-teach-its-members-about-jesus/

It is solid biblical ground to point out the dangers of Freemasonry. It is not biblical ground to to do so falsely. I am trying to tell you the former but you insist on the latter.

But no, Freemasonry does not teach that their ritual leads to heaven (or the "celestial lodge"). It recognizes that all religions have some type of belief in the afterlife and some type of judgment. The symbolism is taken to mean whatever religion the individual mason holds. From there, in the lodge symbols are used (meaning different things to different people) and religion is not discussed.

Are you starting to understand a little more? Everything is symbolic and subjective. It isn't paganism but humanism. And it is more dangerous than the fiction you thought it to be.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is solid biblical ground to point out the dangers of Freemasonry. It is not biblical ground to to do so falsely. I am trying to tell you the former but you insist on the latter.

But no, Freemasonry does not teach that their ritual leads to heaven (or the "celestial lodge"). It recognizes that all religions have some type of belief in the afterlife and some type of judgment. The symbolism is taken to mean whatever religion the individual mason holds. From there, in the lodge symbols are used (meaning different things to different people) and religion is not discussed.

Are you starting to understand a little more? Everything is symbolic and subjective. It isn't paganism but humanism. And it is more dangerous than the fiction you thought it to be.

You would agree than that there is really no reason for a committed Christ follower to be tied into that group?

 

[JonC]

You would agree than that there is really no reason for a committed Christ follower to be tied into that group?

Of course.

My aggravation is when I know that what is said is false. For example, if I were to say to you that your church is a snake handling, baptism regeneration congregation you would deny it. But if I insisted that you belong to such a church what would you say? You would insist you didn't. But I'd reply that you do and you know it (or you are ignorant of the practices of your congregation). You would provide a link to your church's website. But that's what they want people to know about them, and it's false. You belong to a snake handling congregation and nothing will change my mind. You know it's false, but there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Bro. James]

More fake news: A little leaven has leavened the whole lump.

"What concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? II Cor. 6:15.

A strange fraternity!

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[The Biblicist]

I had that book. If you take the time to read the introduction it tells you those are Pike's ideas alone, not representative of any one else's view much less the Scottish Rite. In fact, if you are really that interested you can go to a Scottish Rite library and find the same type of thing by different authors offering different meanings.

I am just trying to keep it honest.... even without all the superstition and witch hunting we can see the problems with Masonry.....again, no need to stray from the Cross. But dishonest rebuttals (even with the best intentions and out of honest ignorance) damages our witness.

I'm the same with politics as well. I think when we remain grounded in Christ we avoid the pitfalls of all these distractions.

I think you are very mistaken, perhaps honestly mistaken. Masons do not give out a book for over 75 plus years to new members if that book is not recognized by those at the very top who select and disperse such materials. The very fact that a changing heirarchy continues an unchanged policy speaks volumes in and of itself.

Moreover, this nonsense that Masonism doesn't believe anything but simply allow every member to interpret their history and symbols according to their own choosing when there is a repetitive historic trail of luciferian symbolism and doctrine that can be easily found in older Masonic editions of the Bible. Sorry Jon, but I simply don't buy your line of reasoning.

 

[JonC]

I think you are very mistaken, perhaps honestly mistaken. Masons do not give out a book for over 75 plus years to new members if that book is not recognized by those at the very top who select and disperse such materials. The very fact that a changing heirarchy continues an unchanged policy speaks volumes in and of itself.

Moreover, this nonsense that Masonism doesn't believe anything but simply allow every member to interpret their history and symbols according to their own choosing when there is a repetitive historic trail of luciferian symbolism and doctrine that can be easily found in older Masonic editions of the Bible. Sorry Jon, but I simply don't buy your line of reasoning.

No, brother. I understand your concern both with the Freemasonry and those who would join the organization. I admire how charitable you seem with God's children who differ with you on this topic. But you are wrong here.

Morals and Dogma (even in the original printing) were these words of introduction:

“he [Pike] extracted quite half of its [Morals and Dogma] contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less. Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound.”

I am sorry, brother, but your comment that Masons don't allow their members to interpret their history and symbols according to their choosing is ignorant of Freemasonry (and misses the entire point all together). You are proven wrong by those copies of Morals and Dogma that were handed out (members were, in fact, "free to reject and dissent from whatever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound"). That is the whole point, and it has somehow escaped you. You seem intelligent. I think that if you look at it as a philosophy (which it is) instead of a religion (which it isn't) that you would start to understand what the thing is about....and why it is not a good thing for a Christian.

I believe you have a heart for the truth, but I also think that you have become confused by the myths surrounding the organization. If you could look beyond that, I think that you would see the very real danger just past the fiction you've come to believe. At a lodge there are people gathered together outwardly united under one Creator for the purpose of improving the human race. But under the surface is the idea that religion is personal, and that differences in religion is what has caused disharmony. Freemasonry looks to secular humanism instead of the Cross for a solution.

 

[The Biblicist]

No, brother. I understand your concern both with the Freemasonry and those who would join the organization. I admire how charitable you seem with God's children who differ with you on this topic. But you are wrong here.

Morals and Dogma (even in the original printing) were these words of introduction:

“he [Pike] extracted quite half of its [Morals and Dogma] contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less. Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound.”

I am sorry, brother, but your comment that Masons don't allow their members to interpret their history and symbols according to their choosing is ignorant of Freemasonry (and misses the entire point all together). You are proven wrong by those copies of Morals and Dogma that were handed out (members were, in fact, "free to reject and dissent from whatever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound"). That is the whole point, and it has somehow escaped you. You seem intelligent. I think that if you look at it as a philosophy (which it is) instead of a religion (which it isn't) that you would start to understand what the thing is about....and why it is not a good thing for a Christian.

I believe you have a heart for the truth, but I also think that you have become confused by the myths surrounding the organization. If you could look beyond that, I think that you would see the very real danger just past the fiction you've come to believe. At a lodge there are people gathered together outwardly united under one Creator for the purpose of improving the human race. But under the surface is the idea that religion is personal, and that differences in religion is what has caused disharmony. Freemasonry looks to secular humanism instead of the Cross for a solution.

I was well aware of that clause but you are missing the point. The point is that the higher levels of Masonism are very comfortable with the dissemination of that book. Not only so, but much of the very same material is found in Masonic editions of the Bible and from other Masonic resources. That is no accident! My research keeps turning up the same material whether it is from Pike, whether it is from Masonic editions of the bible, whether it is from past Masons and past histories of Masonism there is the same consistent Luciferian thread. I fully agree that on the lower levels of Masonism there is no conspiracy afoot, however, in the upper levels of Masonery there is just too much evidence over too long of time to ignore.

Everything has an origin and the doctrines espoused by Pike and many others found in many places throughout the history of Masonism very clearly tells you its ultimate source and it is not God. In some of these Bibles you have pictures of false Babylonian and Egyptian gods and their connection with what Masons believe their ancient history ties their order with. There is just too much evidence that Lucifer is thoroughly tied into the ancient past of Masonism.

 

[JonC]

I was well aware of that clause but you are missing the point. The point is that the higher levels of Masonism are very comfortable with the dissemination of that book. Not only so, but much of the very same material is found in Masonic editions of the Bible and from other Masonic resources. That is no accident! My research keeps turning up the same material whether it is from Pike, whether it is from Masonic editions of the bible, whether it is from past Masons and past histories of Masonism there is the same consistent Luciferian thread. I fully agree that on the lower levels of Masonism there is no conspiracy afoot, however, in the upper levels of Masonery there is just too much evidence over too long of time to ignore.

I appreciate the sincerity with which you hold your conclusions. I believe that you have the very best intentions, and I do not think that you are intentionally misleading people. I've encountered many sincere pastors that were dumbfounded as to why they failed to connect to so many Masonic church members as their churches divided. The reason, of course, is that their "study" showed what the experience of actual members (including 32 degree Scottish Rite members) proved false. Those pastors only preached to the choir who were equally ignorant about the fraternity.

I know that you are an intelligent man, and I don't want to insult your intelligence. I had read and studied what you present here long before I joined the masons. I read that along with the rebuttals, and I came to the conclusion that if I picked a side it would be out of ignorance. How do you know that you are right and I am wrong? You don't. You have simply chosen what you believe to be the most logical conclusion. How do I know that I am right and you are wrong? I studied the Freemasons from within the group. I read at the Scottish Rite library (many other takes on the degrees that rejected any remotely close to Albert Pike's ideas). I went through the Rite (32 degree mason). I went through the York Rite. I presided over a loge, conferred degrees, explained that everything was symbolism and subjective, and finished my experience as a Past Master. I know that I am right and you are wrong because I took the time (even if it was not the wisest thing to do) to find out.

Again, I know from past conversations that you are both intelligent and scholarly. I truly wish that I had the gift to explain to you in a way that you would understand exactly how Freemasonry works. On one hand, it really is an interesting philosophy - especially when applied to government (the Scottish Rite). Different ideologies uniting under a common and symbolic framework for the betterment of man (an atheistic or deistic religious structure from which work united towards a common good without compromising the various religions represented therein...."In God We Trust").

But in another way, it is more dangerous than your fiction (those wicked 32 degree masons "at the top level" teaching things no one under them will ever know for....well, for no reason at all but to worship Lucifer and trick others into worshiping Lucifer....without knowing they are worshiping Lucifer ...). The fiction is rather silly when you get down to it. A few top rung people tricking Christians into worshiping a false god? Really? Step back and look at what you are saying. It's foolishness in the end because it is pointless. Until you see this I guess you're left to battle Albert Pike's ideas, Tolkien's wizards, and C.S. Lewis' witches. Go get'em tiger. Just try not to tear down too many Christians on your quest.

BUT if you are ever able to understand that Freemasonry is a philosophy and not a religion, that it is a philosophy that can be applied to religions (to include Christianity) because it is so subjective and that it seeks to create an environment where men unite under a common ceremonial deism for the purpose of creating a better humanity, then you will start to see why I am concerned about Christians joining the fraternity.

And you are smart enough to understand. I think the problem is that I am not articulate enough to explain. And for that, I do apologize.

 

[Bro. James]

Catholicism is a religion, with the philosophy of Aristotle and the legalism of the Roman Empire. They can be traced to Nimrod. They are the largest so-called Christian group on the planet. Now what?

All conspiracy aside, these insidious, man-made religions are all part of the war between The Lord God(Jehovah,not Allah), and Satan, who is still alive and well on Planet Earth.

My somewhat biased impression of Shriners comes from having seen them in convention in Chicago many years ago. I saw a remarkable amount of wine, women and song among the men with the Fez hats. Good men were getting better I guess. One big problem with that philosophy: there are no good men. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

An interesting read: check out the history of the Fez. The other symbols are interesting too.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Brother James

 

[JonC]

Catholicism is a religion, with the philosophy of Aristotle and the legalism of the Roman Empire. They can be traced to Nimrod. They are the largest so-called Christian group on the planet. Now what?

All conspiracy aside, these insidious, man-made religions are all part of the war between The Lord God(Jehovah,not Allah), and Satan, who is still alive and well on Planet Earth.=

I agree, and that's the point.

The "religion" of the world is not each manifestation of it (Hinduism, Catholicism, Islam, etc) but the principles and philosophies AND power behind those things. They all point to man and not to God.

The same is true with Freemasonry. It seeks to create a philosophy within which all men can gather and on the surface worship, live, and exist together for the betterment of man. It tries to make the Christian a better Christian, the Muslim a better Muslim, the Jew a better Jew...in terms of the "brotherhood of man" based on the creatorship (not the redemption) of God.

It looks to mankind to accomplish what only the blood of Christ can accomplish.

 

[Revmitchell]

Pastors fail to connect to masonic church members because the masonic church members have an unrepentant evil in their lives and they cannot hear the pastor much less God.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

I wonder if the Masonic "luciferian" issue is a difference without much distinction. IMO, humanism began with Satan in the Garden when the serpent deceived Eve, "...ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - thus trusting in human judgment rather than in God's. Therefore, a fraternity that promotes humanism is promoting Satan's initial deception. (Perhaps I'm being too simplistic?)

 

[Yeshua1]

I was well aware of that clause but you are missing the point. The point is that the higher levels of Masonism are very comfortable with the dissemination of that book. Not only so, but much of the very same material is found in Masonic editions of the Bible and from other Masonic resources. That is no accident! My research keeps turning up the same material whether it is from Pike, whether it is from Masonic editions of the bible, whether it is from past Masons and past histories of Masonism there is the same consistent Luciferian thread. I fully agree that on the lower levels of Masonism there is no conspiracy afoot, however, in the upper levels of Masonery there is just too much evidence over too long of time to ignore.

Everything has an origin and the doctrines espoused by Pike and many others found in many places throughout the history of Masonism very clearly tells you its ultimate source and it is not God. In some of these Bibles you have pictures of false Babylonian and Egyptian gods and their connection with what Masons believe their ancient history ties their order with. There is just too much evidence that Lucifer is thoroughly tied into the ancient past of Masonism.

Just seems that Free masonry is really a religion, that gives to those following it the false hope of eternal life by observing its rites and practices. There seems also to be a direct tie into Lucifer in some fashion at the highest levels, as have seen reports describing close ties between free masonry, Mormonism, and witchcraft/Occult.

 

[JonC]

Pastors fail to connect to masonic church members because the masonic church members have an unrepentant evil in their lives and they cannot hear the pastor much less God.

The irony here is your argument about the founding of America as you quoted those evil satanic Masons as evidence of a Christian heritage. Sometimes you can see the reed changing with the wind.

I do hope you keep Freemasonry out of your church and I share that desire. The difference, I suppose, is that while some want to drive away the people with superstitions and myths I prefer to deal honestly with the subject and lead them to repentance. While you would drive them away with a lie I want to bring them to reconciliation and repentance with truth.

You can pretend all day that the reason Masons reject your conclusions is that they are unrepentant of evil. But the truth is they reject your conclusions because their experience tells them that you are wrong. I believe that the Christian does best from the standpoint of Truth but I do understand pastors who intentionally teach a lie for the greater good. The problem with that philosophy is when (or if) the lie is discovered the pastor loses credibility.

For example, you cannot persuade someone who holds to corporate election that they are wrong because they deny God's sovereignty because they know they don't. That said, you can never convenience some they don't because they have already made up their mind based on the writings of others and people who converted to their way of thinking. You lose credibility with the corporate election folks because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology.

You cannot persuade a free-will theologian that they believe that men save themselves because they know this is not what they believe. You lose credibility with the free-will folks because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology.

You cannot persuade a Calvinist that he believes God authors evil because this is not what a Calvinist believes. You lose credibility with the Calvinists because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology

And you cannot persuade a Mason who is a Christian that he worships Lucifer because he knows he doesn't. You can't persuade them that the degrees mean one thing when he, by experience, knows they don't. You lose credibility with the Masons because they KNOW you misunderstand their organization.

I know you believe what what you believe. And that's fine, we are on the same side of the issue here. I only hope that God will give you the grace to keep the conspiracy gossip from tearing down Christians you may encounter who may have experienced Freemasonry very differently from the ideas you have formed.

 

[Revmitchell]

The irony here is your argument about the founding of America as you quoted those evil satanic Masons as evidence of a Christian heritage. Sometimes you can see the reed changing with the wind.

No no, no irony at all. Those quotes show that this country was founded on biblical principles and they were in response to the false notion that the founders care little to nothing about biblical principles or God.

I do hope you keep Freemasonry out of your church and I share that desire. The difference, I suppose, is that while some want to drive away the people with superstitions and myths I prefer to deal honestly with the subject and lead them to repentance. While you would drive them away with a lie I want to bring them to reconciliation and repentance with truth.

What is the biblical mandate for those in the church living in open and unrepentant sin?

You can pretend all day that the reason Masons reject your conclusions is that they are unrepentant of evil. [/QUOTE]

No no there is no pretending.

 

[JonC]

No no, no irony at all. Those quotes show that this country was founded on biblical principles and they were in response to the false notion that the founders care little to nothing about biblical principles or God.



What is the biblical mandate for those in the church living in open and unrepentant sin?

You can pretend all day that the reason Masons reject your conclusions is that they are unrepentant of evil.

No no there is no pretending.[/QUOTE]
As I said, we are on the same side of the issue. I didn't mean to sound as if was accusing you of being wrong to exclude Freemasons from fellowship in your church. I'm sure you do the same with other organizations who takes similar oaths and unite for similar purposes.

All I am saying is that I believe you would be more effective in dealing with Masons if what you said was actually what they experienced. I think it is difficult to talk to someone about a sin or a lifestyle when the things you talk about are foreign to what they have found to be true.

I believe that we lose ground when we leave Christ behind and involve ourselves in conspiracies and theories.

I went through the degrees. I conferred degrees. I was a Master Mason, Royal Arch, Cryptic, Knights Templar, 32nd degree, Master of a lodge, and Past Master. What you are talking about is foreign to what I experienced.

How do you explain to someone like me why your idea of,Freemasonry was foreign to what I experienced?

 

[Yeshua1]

You did have esoteric/hidden knowledge, the real name of God to give forth, correct?
You were taught that one prepares for life after death by the masocin rites/ceremonies correct?

Free Masonry claims to be just a group that does charity and good works, which they do such as the Shriners, but at its core, does teach a religious system that no devout Christian should belong to and partake of, as to be in there would be at least giving the appearance of agreeing all roads lead to God, and that salvation is not in jesus alone.

 

[JonC]

You did have esoteric/hidden knowledge, the real name of God to give forth, correct?
You were taught that one prepares for life after death by the masocin rites/ceremonies correct?

Free Masonry claims to be just a group that does charity and good works, which they do such as the Shriners, but at its core, does teach a religious system that no devout Christian should belong to and partake of, as to be in there would be at least giving the appearance of agreeing all roads lead to God, and that salvation is not in jesus alone.

In the Knights Templar degree there was a secret name for God. The degree, which is a play, has the candidate play in the part of an Old Testament Jew. He and his companions find a box in the rubble and they take it to the king. The box reveals the name of God which had been lost. When you open the box it revealed that God's name is Jehovah.

It doesn't teach a religion but it does superimpose a humanistic philosophy. And I agree, Christians should not be members. We work within the body of Christ, not a secular organization embodying many religions as a Brotherhood of mankind.

 

[church mouse guy]

In a small town, the Masonic Lodge can affect a person's job. I think that the SBC said that if you were already a member, you could stay in if you liked; but if you were not a member, do not join. I think that the Masonic Lodge is losing members as time goes by.