Featured If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?

To whom was the author of Hebrews writing his letter? Was it to believers or to all humanity?
You struggle with the English word "all" and demand that it is addressing all humanity. The context, however, clearly refers to those whom the author is addressing. Thus...every man is every one whom God has elected.
If it was all humanity then all humanity would be saved. No rejection by any human would thwart the sacrifice Jesus gave for all humanity. If human rejection could prevail over God's work, then humans would be greater than God.
Do you see the horrible error in which you have fallen?

 

Gibberish is right. I have no idea what he meant by that. Yet another example of why Calvinism is difficult to harmonize. The leading scholar who support it do not agree on it. Many Baptist Calvinists closely associated with Sproul.

 

Those who do not receive the benefit of positive predestination are by default sent to Hell, or they send themselves to Hell or however you want to put it. Neither the man predestined to Heaven, nor the man who by default will end up in Hell deserved Heaven. Neither was a worse sinner than the other. Neither deserved Heaven. Both deserved Hell. One got Heaven. One got Hell. God offered one irresistible grace, He did not offer it to the other. Confuses the dickens out of me.

 

No. If your view about the way He operates is correct, then He is all loving in a way that He has yet to give me the ability to comprehend. I don't question His love, I question our understanding of it.

 

They are all convicted lawbreakers. I would be choosing which ones I offer pardon and which ones I pass by.

 

And here's how to exegete a passage of scriptures. Kudos!!

 

Brother, we try to approach the scriptures with God's attributes in view. Now, if God is immutable, and He is, and His love is an everlasting love, what do we say about those who He casts headlong into eternal torment?

Does He love them up until the day of judgment, only to do a 180 and hate them? Does He love them, even after He has cast them headlong into eternal torment?

 

No the accurate story is YOU CAN ADOPT ALL EASILY, but decide to adopt only 10.

Its amazing how the story keeps changing afterwards they are "criminals" who "hurt" God. Its like pressing attempted murder charges for a child throwing a nerf ball at you.


Today God doesn't want you to sin ever again, to never absolutely 100% never sin again. Really 100% does not want you to sin. And you have the 100% capacity to never sin again.

God gives you 100% possibility to avoid all sin:

1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

So when you do sin, who's fault is that? There is no atheist I am only human excuse. There is no sin nature holding you back, It is 100% your fault.


God doesn't want anyone to sin, ever, God does not want anyone in the world to sin and be lost to damnation.

 

We say that God is a Just God. His attribute of holiness and justice is displayed in his love by rightly casting criminals into hell. God tells us he hates sin. His wrath is kindled by sin. What kind of love ignores the criminal behavior of a person and instead just opens the arms with no restitution required? Is that love?
It is that sort of behavior that you are demanding from God. You demand that God's love be unjust. You demand that God's attributes of holiness, righteousness and justice be abandoned purely because your twisted concept of love cannot fathom a God of justice.

 

Are there any sinners and lawbreakers in your fantasy world?

 

I haven't twisted anything Brother. I am sorry if it came across that way. God's justice demands the penalty for sin. God's justice and wrath was poured out upon His Son and He took that penalty of sin in our place so we don't and won't have to.

 

My response is more directly toward the folks who cannot reconcile the attributes of God. They have a twisted view of God's love, which castrates God's attributes of holiness, righteousness and justice.

Where people struggle is when they would take your word "our" and make it universally true for all mankind. If that were true then all would be saved. But, we know that not all are saved. Thus Christ took the penalty only for the elect and not for all humanity. If the payment were for all humanity then God would be unjust when he tossed pardoned sinners into hell.

 

Oh, I agree.

Again, no disagreement from me here.

I was asking Brother Reynolds these questions to further the discussion. God, being immutable, doesn't love and then do a 180 and then hate them. So, it shows that His love is upon those the Christ died for.

 

If His salvation plan works by the Calvinistic model, all He has to do to keep that sinner out of Hell is to extend "irresistible grace" to him. He loves him so much He does not offer him the "irresistible" offer that will keep him out of the fire?

 

There is no 'if' to this. Jesus said all the Father gave to Him COME to Him, and none who come to Him will He cast aside.[John 6:37]

Without God drawing them, none will come to Him seeking to be saved. That's the thrust of John 6:37-45.

The same word used for 'draw' is the same used when Peter drew the sword to cut an ear off and the net Peter dragged to the shore that was full of fish.

God does not drag us kicking and screaming, but effectually draws us.

 

The God of the Bible "so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.. He requires justice bro, and I have told you this over and over, But you seem to have a propensity for misrepresenting people. .

 

Explain what justice is in your mind.
All will perish unless they, in faith, believe. They cannot have faith unless God makes them alive and gives them the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
God's love is not undiscerning.

SheepWhisperer, are humans, by nature, good or evil? Are they saints or sinners? Are we lawbreakers or perfect law abiders?

Your concept of God's love is twisted by your corrupt view of the human condition. You imagine humans to be worthy of being saved.

 

Plenty Menno. And when they do wrong its THEIR FAULT rather then GOD's fault.

God does not want you to sin. So you will never sin again right?

Or is God too stupid and powerless to get what he wants?

Why don't you stop sinning? You blame God. Because he has not provided you with this or that.

The reason you don't stop sinning Menno, is YOU DON'T WANT TO STOP.

You have nothing but excuses, excuses and excuses. Here's a novel idea, REPENT and take responsibility, Tell God you are in the wrong because it its ONLY your fault.

Not no "sin nature" , not no ordained permissive license to sin, You sin and you NEVER ADMIT it is YOUR FAULT. You think you are greater then GOD, That YOU never sin, You always blame GOD for your mess.

 

That is correct! He decided to choose, elect, select a vast number "to" salvation "through sanctification/setting apart by the Spirit and "belief of the truth" so that they "should be blameless and holy before him in love." That is what he actually decided. Such a choice or decision was necessary as "no man can come to me" which declares universal inability. If that were not so, there would be no need for the exception clause "except the Father draws him." The fact that the Father has also decided not to draw every human being further confirms the elective decision to salvation as those in John 6:64-65 were not drawn by the Father. Interestingly Jesus changes the wording from "except the father draws him" in verse 40 to "except it is given to him by the father" in verse 65 The change of wording reverses the problem of inability found in the word "can" in verse 40 to the solution where by the ability to believe is what the father needs to give in verse 65 as those in verse 64 never believed "from the beginning" simply because the ability to believe was never "given to him by the father."

Many want to take the short statement in John 12:32 and then read it back into John 6:29-65 and reverse the longer statement. However, the anarthous "pan" in John 12:32 is referring in context to the "Greeks" who were asking permission to see Jesus and Jesus was justifying that "all" classes of men will be drawn to him in contrast to the present belief of the Jews that "salvation was of the Jews" (Jn. 4:22) but in addition was restricted to Jews whereas salvation was for the "whole world" all ethnicities, genders, classes (Rev. 5:8-9).