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Featured If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Calv1, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    If God does not control all His creation, then Colossians 1:17 is stating a lie.
    If God does not have control over all, then He is not all powerful and He is not Sovereign.
    You have a serious dilemma on your hands, Reynolds, since you have created a god who is weak and impotent.
     
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    God controls quite a lot?

    That says quite a lot.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "Reynolds,

    Psalm 148:8
    Fire, and hail; snow, and vapours; stormy wind fulfilling his word:

    Look here in Jonah;

    ch1
    4 But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.

    17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
    ch2
    10 And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
    ch4;

    6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.

    7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

    8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.

    Reynolds....this is the biblical God controlling land, sea,and air....There can be no answered prayer, and no fulfilled prophecy if God is not in 100% control.
     
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    In Job's afflictions, God was in control.

    When Israel was handed over to Babylon, God was in control.

    When Assyria was stirred up to attack Israel, God was in control.

    When Pharaoh's heart was hardened, it was God who hardened it, and He was in control.

    When wicked ppl killed our Saviour, God was in control.

    Looks like He is sovereign to me.
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 2 AM Pacific.
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Then don't include my name in your accusation. I answered your question about the tree limb. Here it is again, "God can, if He so chooses, control every aspect of the storm. But He is under no obligation to do so."

    Now, if you want to continue the discussion without the falsehoods about what others believe, fine. But if not I will close the thread.

    Your choice.
     
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  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Please don't lie about what others believe.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Col 1:17 does not say what you imply. If not being a micro manager makes one weak and impotent in your mind, then so be it.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Did I ever say He was not?
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    John 13:34........................................................................
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    100% in control does not mean act I Ely controlling 100% of what happens.
     
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Here's what Reynolds said.

    Where did I lie?
     
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    What does "all creation" mean to you?

    You have stated that God only deals with some of creation. "Only the important stuff."

    I state that God deals with all the stuff. That's what Colossians 1:17 says.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    In a roundabout way, yes you have.

    God is in control of quite a bit is not Him being sovereign. Not in the least.
     
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    From today's Truth For Life devotional:
    What Do We Know?
    We know that for those who love God all things work together for good.

    Romans 8:28
    Upon some points a believer is absolutely sure. He knows, for instance, that God sits in the center of the vessel when it rocks most. He believes that an invisible hand is always on the world's tiller, and that wherever providence may drift, God is steering it. That reassuring knowledge prepares him for everything. He looks over the raging waters and sees the spirit of Jesus walking on the water, and he hears a voice saying, "It is I-do not be afraid." He knows too that God is always wise, and knowing this, he is confident that there can be no accidents, no mistakes and that nothing can occur that ought not to happen. He can say, "If I should lose everything, it is better that I should lose it than keep it if it is God's will: The worst disaster is the wisest and the kindest thing that I could face if God ordains it."

    "We know that for those who love God all things work together for good." The Christian does not merely hold this as a theory, but he knows it as a matter of fact. So far everything has worked for good; the poisonous drugs mixed in proper proportions have effected the cure; the sharp cuts of the scalpel have cleaned out the disease and facilitated the healing. Every event as yet has worked out the most divinely blessed results; and so, believing that God rules all, that He governs wisely, that He brings good out of evil, the believer's heart is assured, and he is learning to meet each trial calmly when it comes. In the spirit of true resignation the believer can pray, "Send me what You will, my God, as long as it comes from You; there never was a poor portion that came from Your table to any of Your children."

    Do not say, my soul, "Where will God find one to relieve my care?"
    Remember that Omnipotence has servants everywhere.
    His method is sublime and His heart profoundly kind,
    God is never too early and never behind!
     
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  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    That is God's Sovereignty
     
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  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What is outside of God's control?
    Which verse in Jonah was incorrect?
     
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  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    When you said Reynolds believes God is a passive observer of his creation and that he was a Deist.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Reynolds did offer the deistic explanation of God's providence over Creation, but you are right that this explanation strictly in terms of how God holds all things together doesn't make him a deist. And the fact that his remarks exclude him from that charge does make @MennoSota 's claim at worst a lie and at best a misunderstanding as Deists are not Christians.
     
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Reynolds' statement that "God is active and controls quite a lot" cannot be construed as being a tenet of Deism in any way, shape, or form. It is a gross distortion of Reynolds' beliefs, and yes, is a lie.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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