JOHN 3:16 - FOR GOD SO LOVES THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE

The atonement is only for the elect. The verses in John 3 do not say Jesus died for the entire world, but only for those who would believe. Your attempt to create a corporate atonement is incorrect, both for Israel as well as for humanity.

 

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John 3:16 does not express what you claim. The context around the passage supports limited atonement.

 

Now, all agree His love is everlasting. Seeing He is immutable, does He loves those in hell for eternity? If yes, you are saying He is a cruel God that loves them He cast headlong into eternal gehenna. If not, then He is no longer immutable, seeing He loved them up until the day of judgment and then did a complete 180 and poured His wrath out upon the vessels of His mercy. This negates Romans 9 altogether.

I see His love as an everlasting love. In the light of His immutability, this love is upon His sheep. We, all who are saved, were objects of His mercy and not objects of His wrath.

 

You equate wrath with hate.

I discipline my loved ones, but those that don't belong to me I don't mess with, but that doesn't work with God!

He owns it all. He is the ultimate one in charge of all, nor is there even the slightest change to His character.

The lake of fire isn't because God is somehow changed or turns 180, rather it is again the ultimate expression of His love for us.

I could conjecture that He is also demonstrating love in the eternality of the Lake of fire. Or,that He does not remove hope of escape, which is loving, though futile thinking which adds to the torment.

The Scriptures are rather silent about eternity, but not about the love of God. It is never changed to hate as humans would ascribe the word.

 

Well, David used the wrong word in...

The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.[Psalm 5:5]

The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.[Psalm 11:5]


There are six things which the LORD hates,Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6:16-19]

God, in Proverbs 6, hates these ppl, not just their evil deeds.

Look up the hebrew word sane'...

 

Not at all.

Rather it is you who are putting John 3 into a place it was never intended.

Would it do any goog to encourage you to dig into your learning, construct the passage out of the original language and see for yourself, that the thinking of the reformed is not supported?

Over the decades, I have few who, in honest work on this passage, did not come to the same conclusion as I came to understand it.

 

Does God love ppl in hell?

Does God hate Satan and his minions who rebelled and fell with him?

 

Are you not using your own limited considerations of the attributes of love in your questions?

Which one of us would love enough to purposely destroy their own son for a creation that rebelled and obstinately?

Which one of us would visit with the sworn enemy bent on destruction of everything and offer him the opportunity to not only take apart a personal friend (Job) but tempt away the only begotten son?

Never in the Scriptures does it state God is hate.

The Scriptures are clear that God does not change.
The Scriptures are clear - "God is Love".

 

So, God loves Satan, his minions, and all those who will reside for eternity in hell?

 

Is that an honest comment or a biased comment?
Since you're playing the judge, I suspect biased comment.

 

Now you're putting words in my mouth I never said. But it does say God hates.

You have this creampuff, pie-in-the-sky Being who just loves, loves, loves. You're no better than the accuser in Romans 9:20 and those who make God into their own image in Romans 1:23.

 

Huh. Guess God didn't comment about illegitimate children in Hebrews 12.

If the child is not a loved one you don't mess with them. How much more does God not mess with rebel sinners?

Hebrews 12:6,8
[6]For the lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”
[8]If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.

 

"ICHTHUSDOULOS,

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (3:16-17)

here is [ylt]

the world, not the Israel only



He gave The Son...for what purpose?

Notice....ICH....now he is not speaking of everyone ever born...but rather....everyone believing
they are scattered....worldwide as Jn11 tells us;
51 And this he said not of himself, but being chief priest of that year, he did prophesy that Jesus was about to die for the nation,

52 and not for the nation only, but that also the children of God, who have been scattered abroad, he may gather together into one.

ICH.....the..... EVERYONE BELIEVING....are the elect...do you see it?
the non elect do not love God or His word...they love sin

If the everyone believing may not perish, would you agree everyone not believing are certainly going to perish?








The main purpose of the study, is to see what Jesus Christ means when He says, “for God so loved the world”. Are we to take these words in their natural meaning, which was so understood for the first three and a half centuries of the Church, and by the leading Greek lexical works, “the whole human race”; or, as some suppose, who claim to follow the teachings of John Calvin, that Jesus here means only “the elect”?

 

"agedman,

This is the clear teaching of scripture from cover to cover.The statements that are clear about who Jesus came to die for are not refutable.
Jesus died for;
the Church,
the sanctified
, the children the Father gave to Him
the sheep
all the Father gave Him
everyone believing
those he was surety for

 

ABOUT BIRTH FROM ABOVE


What do I see in the Bible about this?


There is a biblical and very brief formula: " Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Simple and universal!

Why such a formula is more correct than the generally accepted tradition: "Repented = born again"?

Because it corresponds 100% to what Christ taught about the birth of Above in John 3: 1-21. We have the original source of the Birth from Above Doctrine - The Christ Himself!

I propose for all in the Birth from Above Doctrine let’s stop to be, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way in a study of a Birth from Above Doctrine - then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming according to the elements of the world, according to the philosophies, according to human traditions, the cunning art of seduction, not according to The Christ.

I suggest that you take a great interest in the Birth from Above Doctrine directly from Christ - "we know that you are a teacher who came from God" (John 3: 2). His doctrine is the most powerful Doctrine skeleton for the Body of Christ!

What did I see in the teaching of Christ about Birth from Above Doctrine?

1. Born from above is not the soul, or the body, or combination of the two, - it is our spirit born from above, New Born Spirit! The new spirit who dwells in us from the birth moment is born from the SPIRIT,- John3:6

2. The birth of a new Spirit in human occurs through faith in the fact that Jesus is the Christ.

But there is a problem. The meaning of His Name is not always revealed before believing in His Name.

Let's try to discover it better.

1.God gave us His Son for the purpose that His mission would be accomplished. The name "Christ" bears an immensely important meaning. And the meaning of His name is the Savior of the world. Christ = the Savior of the world. God loved the whole world, -Jn3: 14, 15, 16. On the Cross, the salvation of the human race was accomplished.

2. Whoever believes in His Name (Christ = the Savior of the world), this one accepts Christ.

3. Inn that one person, Christ by His Spirit makes the birth from Above, He creates new creation- the new spirit (John 3: 18, John 3: 6)

Who does NOT NEED it?

Those who has no need of Christ in, who doesn’t go to the Light, i.e. Those who do not recognize themselves as 100% sinner, i.e. they are not Repentant. This Light enlightens everyone, without exception, a person who comes to the world (John 3: 19, 20). It is also appropriate to mention here about John chapter 1.

To whom is it NECESSARY?

To a repentant, i.e. to those who recognized themselves as 100% sinner, i.e. Penitential, i.e. those who go to the Light, and do not run away from Him, that is, those who need Christ (John. 3:21).

To this powerful skeleton (the Teaching of Christ on Birth from Above Doctrine in John3: 1-21), now it is very easy to increment the powerful muscles of the doctrine of the birth from above on the basis of Christ and the Apostles:

1. The Center of Revelation about God becomes the Truth, that He is our Father,- 1John, chapter 2 , and 3.

A father does not exist without children. Children are not without birth. John, chapter 1; Rome.8; 1John, chapter 2, and3.

2. It is revealed that Christ stands at the door of every human who comes into the world and knocks to their heart. He is waiting to be received.

It is up to everyone to accept Him or not to accept Him,- John1; Revelation 3:20.

And to those who receive Him, He enters to them.

By entering, He commits the birth of the spirit by His Spirit (John 3: 5,6, John 1, Rom. 8.)

3. It is revealed that we are saved through this resurrection by Him (Eph. 2)

The question arises: "How can we receive Him?"

Believe in His Name! (John3: 18; 1John 5: 1.)

By this faith, we open the door to Him, and He enters to make a birth from Above.

What is hidden in His Name?

Christ = the Savior of the world. John3: 16.17; In4: 25, In4: 42; In1: 29; 2Cor5: 19

The immediate task of the Church, which is the pillar and affirmation of Truth, is to examine and inform the people of what precious meaning is borne by His Name.

Through His Name, the Truth is revealed that He is the Savior of the world, and in fact the Savior of every soul who has a breath in his nostrils.

Is this fact enough to have eternal life with God after death?

NO. INSUFFICIENT.

To have a life with God after death, one must become His child = born again.

How to be in the number of His children = born again?

To believe that He saved all those who have breathing in their nostrils, and if all of them, then, without a reason, and you, dear friend.

BY THIS FAITH YOU OPEN DOOR FOR HIM, HE ENTERS, MAKES BIRTH OF ABOVE, AND GIVES POWER TO BE A CHILD OF GOD.

Some time ago I did not focus on the fullness of the Name of our Savior. After the visit of one FB group, another important aspect of His Name was clarified. Yeshua = Jesus = Savior of the soul / souls from their sins. Sin traumatizes the soul. And now I see better that formula of birth from above: Anyone who believes that Yeshua (the Savior of the Souls of His people from their sins) is Christ (the Savior of the world from the wages of sin) is born of God !!! May His Name be exalted above all names !!! Let every knee bow down before His Name !!!!

Two aspects of salvation are revealed. The Spirit is saved by a single offering through our faith. The soul continues until the moment of death

of the body to need the Savior from sins, she groans from them for release (Rom. 8: 19-21), and with fear and trembling we perform the salvation of our soul from sins with the help of the Savior of our souls (Phil.2 : 12-13). Sin traumatizes our souls, so we run to the Savior.
Born from God-о рождении свыше - Владимир Сургай

http://vladimirsurgay.foru.ru

 

And this thread started with so much promise. Thanks for the OP. john 3:16 says God loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave is one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him [Christ] will not perish but have eternal life. Since God desires all people to be saved, it follows that when Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, nobody was excluded. Thus the lost and those never to be saved were bought with a price, such that everyone believing into Him will be saved.

One last point, and yes I know it too is obvious, when Christ died for all mankind, it included the church, and any other subset of mankind. The either or argument is a false dichotomy, Christ died for both all mankind and the subset that are saved.