JOHN 3:16 - FOR GOD SO LOVES THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE

[MennoSota]

Limited Atonement is an outrageous HERESY! Sinful man has placed a "limit" on the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who Himself has said in John 3:16, "for God so loved the human race, that WHOSOEVER...". The problems is with the Calvinists and Reformers, that they are so hardened and blinded by their theological rubbish, that they WILL NOT see any truth. Once the would proudly claim John Calvin himself as the author of the TUILP theology, but they cannot as he rightly did NOT believe in the HERESY of an limited or restricted atonement. These people are so ignorant to what the Bible teaches, that their reasoning and arguments are flawed. They say there is no text that uses "free will", yet they cannot find ONE text that uses the word "Trinity"! Does this mean that the teaching is not found in the Bible? Such is their ignorance!

I notice no biblical support as you have your selfish tantrum.
Biblical support has been shown to you and utilyan regarding God’s limited atonement, yet you dig your heals in and reveal the obstinate heart of one who refuses to believe what God has clearly told us.

 

[MennoSota]

you guys have a very serious problem! how you can jump to conclusions that are based on your rather ignorant understanding of what the Bible actually says, and people like me believe! I don't think any serious believer in Jesus Christ would ever doubt or question that God is absolutely Sovereign over ALL of creation. Just because I mention "free will", you so wrongly conclude that I have problems with God's Sovereignty? If, as you guys say, that man does not have a "free will", then God is the author of sin! Its that simple! Are you suggesting that non believers are not capable of doing anything that is "morally right"? There are many who do not follow the Lord, whose lives are more "godly" than many who claim to be "Christians"!!! So, when a non believer has the "choice" of doing wrong, like stealing, and they don't, is this not their exercising their "free will", in doing what is "morally right"? They may not please the Lord, but then can live better and more "moral" lives than many believers! You guys are so hung up on your "theology", that you cannot see what the Bible actually says on issues like "free will". How can God command all of mankind, both "elect" and "non elect" to repent, when He knows that the latter are not capable of doing so? Are you saying that God makes unjust requirements?

Your warped "theology" makes Calvinists like Wayne Grudem make some really dumb statements:

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331.)

So, here we have God actually "ordaining" that we carry out "evil deeds", and then when we do them, He punishes us for this!!! What a monstrous thing to say! God "ordains" that we rape, murder, steal, commit adultery, formication, incest, and every other EVIL under the sun, and then punishes us for doing what HE MADE US DO! This is utterly DEMONIC! This is what "Calvinism" actually amounts to!

Another tirade with no biblical support. You are an example of humanism in the church.

 

[MennoSota]

You HATE Bible Truth!

You don't use the scriptures and when you do it is always out of context and not an accurate exegesis of the verse. Your use of Stephen and the Serpents staff are just two examples of your weak grasp of God's word.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Not excusing our OP brother for "getting in the flesh" but.........
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. proverbs 15:1

 

[SheepWhisperer]

You don't use the scriptures and when you do it is always out of context and not an accurate exegesis of the verse. Your use of Stephen and the Serpents staff are just two examples of your weak grasp of God's word.

I didn;t see the "Stephen" one, maybe i'll go back and find it later. But I thought his 'serpent on the pole", in the book of Numbers, was excellent knowledge of God's Word..
You see, in the Book of Numbers, God told Moses to make this serpent on a pole and God said that whoever simply looked on the serpent would live and not die from snakebite. But I don't recall reading in there where Moses, Aaron, God or anyone dragged any of those snakebitten folks over and glued their eyeballs to the thing. They just believed what was told them, turned their heads in the general direction, focused both eyeballs on the thing and LIVED! Anyway, Jesus used this to illustrate how salvation happens! Let's read it again.....

Jesus speaking.......
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14-15

We're all "snakebitten" from birth my friends. But God gives everyone a choice; look on Jesus and live, or die. He sets before us life and death, blessing and cursing, BUT He tells us all "choose life". The Way, the Truth, and the Life is only in Jesus Christ. He died for every man woman and child on this planet. That means every single person reading this. Jesus loves YOU! If you don't know Him, you are going to die in a place prepared for the Devil and his angels. He didn't die for just certain ones. He wants everyone to "choose life". But it's your choice.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

you guys have a very serious problem! how you can jump to conclusions that are based on your rather ignorant understanding of what the Bible actually says, and people like me believe! I don't think any serious believer in Jesus Christ would ever doubt or question that God is absolutely Sovereign over ALL of creation. Just because I mention "free will", you so wrongly conclude that I have problems with God's Sovereignty? If, as you guys say, that man does not have a "free will", then God is the author of sin! Its that simple! Are you suggesting that non believers are not capable of doing anything that is "morally right"? There are many who do not follow the Lord, whose lives are more "godly" than many who claim to be "Christians"!!! So, when a non believer has the "choice" of doing wrong, like stealing, and they don't, is this not their exercising their "free will", in doing what is "morally right"? They may not please the Lord, but then can live better and more "moral" lives than many believers! You guys are so hung up on your "theology", that you cannot see what the Bible actually says on issues like "free will". How can God command all of mankind, both "elect" and "non elect" to repent, when He knows that the latter are not capable of doing so? Are you saying that God makes unjust requirements?

Your warped "theology" makes Calvinists like Wayne Grudem make some really dumb statements:

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331.)

So, here we have God actually "ordaining" that we carry out "evil deeds", and then when we do them, He punishes us for this!!! What a monstrous thing to say! God "ordains" that we rape, murder, steal, commit adultery, formication, incest, and every other EVIL under the sun, and then punishes us for doing what HE MADE US DO! This is utterly DEMONIC! This is what "Calvinism" actually amounts to!

When people try to make theological arguments by way of name-calling, attempting to belittle, and sarcasm, they demonstrate that they simply cannot make a case for what they believe, by way of the scripture. This results in you having a 'neener, neener, neener' argument.

God is the author of morality, not you. He chooses who he chooses and you really don't have anything to say about it.

The Bible does not teach that men gain salvation by free will. People can choose to turn right or left, eat a burger or a steak by their own free will. But not salvation, and the Bible teaches that God chooses before the foundation of the world.

Stop trying to control God. It will not serve you well.

"If the election of the Father is not universal and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit is not universal why is the atonement of Jesus universal"? Shai Linne

 

[MennoSota]

I didn;t see the "Stephen" one, maybe i'll go back and find it later. But I thought his 'serpent on the pole", in the book of Numbers, was excellent knowledge of God's Word..
You see, in the Book of Numbers, God told Moses to make this serpent on a pole and God said that whoever simply looked on the serpent would live and not die from snakebite. But I don't recall reading in there where Moses, Aaron, God or anyone dragged any of those snakebitten folks over and glued their eyeballs to the thing. They just believed what was told them, turned their heads in the general direction, focused both eyeballs on the thing and LIVED! Anyway, Jesus used this to illustrate how salvation happens! Let's read it again.....

Jesus speaking.......
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14-15

We're all "snakebitten" from birth my friends. But God gives everyone a choice; look on Jesus and live, or die. He sets before us life and death, blessing and cursing, BUT He tells us all "choose life". The Way, the Truth, and the Life is only in Jesus Christ. He died for every man woman and child on this planet. That means every single person reading this. Jesus loves YOU! If you don't know Him, you are going to die in a place prepared for the Devil and his angels. He didn't die for just certain ones. He wants everyone to "choose life". But it's your choice.

Who are the people who would believe Jesus?
Answer: Those whom God makes alive and adopts as His children.
Your reference promotes limited atonement and you can't see why.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

yes, you need to take a break to cool of and read your Bible more with the directing of the Holy Spirit, and not your warped theological mind!

More name-calling.

Colossians 4:5-6English Standard Version (ESV)

5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

 

[TCassidy]

All of you who are addressing ICHTHUSDOULOS, be advised you are addressing someone who is not here. He has been banned.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Who are the people who would believe Jesus?
Answer: Those whom God makes alive and adopts as His children.
Your reference promotes limited atonement and you can't see why.

No sir, the serpent was "lifted up in the wilderness" for all snakebitten ones to see. But each person had to exercise the faith to "look" of their own volition. That, sir, is "unlimited" atonement: and you still don't see that?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As the OP is now banned, this thread is now closed.

Didn't take the first time.