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Continuing the eschatology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by prophecy70, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I am still looking for the file. Normally I would just search online but, as I implied earlier, I have very little access to Internet now.

    Neither was I being snide., just factual. I know for a fact that I posted the answers to many of the questions that are once again posted against Preterism.
     
  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    "In like manner" as an adverbial phrase. It describes how He was to come - in this case in a cloud.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, physically, in a cloud.
     
  4. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 5 of Clement? I don't think so. Read it again.

    I wish I had my Lightfoot edition of Apostolic Fathers. I studied that quite carefully. There is no mention of a "long past" Neronic persecution.
     
  5. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I can't find the post from John Of Japan where [so-called] Clement 2 is quoted as an authoritative proof. Do you, John, really believe that this is the work of the first epistle? Highly doubtful.
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I did. Clement implies, though he does not directly state, that Paul's death took place in Rome during the persecution of Nero. And the context of the entire epistle is in the second paragraph, "the sudden and successive calamitous events which have happened to ourselves" is regarded, virtually unanimously, to refer to the persecutions under Diocletian.
     
  7. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    All from this passage?


    Revelations 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, nholding in his hand the key to othe bottomless pit1 and a great chain. pthe dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and qbound him for a thousand years, othe pit, and shut it and rsealed it over him, so that she might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

    tthrones, and useated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw vthe souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those wwho had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. xThey came to life and yreigned with Christ for a thousand years. zBlessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such athe second death has no power, but they will be bpriests of God and of Christ, and they cwill reign with him for a thousand years.

    https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rev 20- Author John, Written around Ad 68 ;) Better?- Thats meant to be a joke, Not another define star moment.

    Show me some statements of Polycarp's premillennialism. Please, asking nicely.

    I honestly apologize. I will cite sources.



    You are not my coach, teacher, or anything above me, but a Brother in Christ. If I were a Non christian, your disposition on the matter, your repetitive "My degree, stop reading Junk, Your here to debate, Millennial Problem" Would really Turn me off towards Christianity. Im sorry If that bothers you, But I'm being Honest with you. You may of liked "tough love" But when I grew up, my father grounded me from the internet if I questioned the KJV bible and Futurism saying it was from the devil. I need a Friend, not a Father, I rarely talk to him (not because of the futurism,because what he said about the bible was true and nothing but the truth and why? Because he said so). unless I want something or I go home to visit. ( I know its terrible). So far As a futurist and reading all the books he has, I have not found one to be credible, All of them start with a preconceived idea in my opinion. And they all pretty much try to date set, last days last days, 1988, antichrist is probably living now....and so on. Lindsey Macarthur Walvoord Lahaye (the left behind series are still good Fiction movies though), all sound like Im reading starwars instead of the bible. Talks of aircraft carriers and Tomahawk missiles, helicopters as locusts. I don't believe John seen any of this no more then he seen Godzilla destroy Japan.
    Im not going through a rebellion stage of futurism, I just find the Creditability of the explanations of preterism (at least with the Olivet discourse to be a lot more believable). Im actually watching a Debate right now. Gary Demar and Thomas Ice. I don't get how Ice, says Luke is about the Destruction of the Temple but Matthew is about the end of the world. Jesus only gave one discourse they are parallel passages, they say the same thing, in different words, same as What was written on Jesus's Cross, they all say different things in each Gospel.


    Matthew 24

    15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation wspoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in xthe holy place (ylet the reader understand),then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains zLet the one who is on athe housetop not go down to take what is in his house, balas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! cgreat tribulation, dsuch as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. ethe sake of the elect those days will be cut short. fThen if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. gfalse christs and hfalse prophets will arise and iperform great signs and wonders, hso as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. jI have told you beforehand. khe is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. lFor as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be mthe coming of the Son of Man. nWherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
    Luke 21
    20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
     
    #67 prophecy70, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    No, from the Word of God in its entirety.
    Polycarp (69-155), Epistle to the Philippians:
    “For if we be well pleasing unto Him in this present world, we shall receive the future world also, according as He promised us to raise us from the dead, and that if we conduct ourselves worthily of Him we shall also reign with Him, if indeed we have faith.”
    (Lightfoot trans., par. 5)
    Good. You are growing.
    If you were a non-Christian I would be taking a totally different approach. So this paragraph of yours is meaningless. And I certainly have no desire to be your coach or teacher. I really don't think you'd fit in here where I teach.

    Right now we're having a "youth summit." If you really and truly want to follow Jesus Christ 100% you may check out the "Thee Generation" (not "Me Generation") website put together by one of our evangelists. It's greatly helpful, but if you have never given absolutely everything to Christ you won't like it: http://www.theegeneration.org/

    Are you kidding me? I hated tough love. But it was deeply helpful to building my Christian character.

    All I know to say to this rant is, "Honor thy father and mother."
    Long passages with no explanation or exegesis are one of my pet peeves here on the BB.
     
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  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Clement:

    4 For the Lord said, I come to gather together all the nations, tribes, and languages. Herein He speaketh of the day of His appearing, when He shall come and redeem us, each man according to his works. 5 And the unbelievers shall see His glory and His might: and they shall be amazed when they see the kingdom of the world given to Jesus,

    Lightfoot trans., 2 Clement 17.4-5
     
  10. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Sigh, The compassion is overwhelming.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yesterday I wept and prayed with a schizophrenic man after doing a Bible study with him. Today I am spending a very large amount of time on the BB with a young man who seems confused about many things. I do have compassion for you, but little patience for preterism.
     
  12. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    And a terrible way of showing it. Thats all Ill say on the forum. Im waiting to see more of asterisktoms replies.
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    John has been nothing but patient and polite in his dealings with you.
     
  15. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I have a millennial problems, Im a liar (oh wait that was you *implying* that)..., uneducated, illiterate, only here to debate. The politeness is outstanding.
     
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I never said this.
    I said "linguistically illiterate," and it was in general, not aimed specifically at you. Then when you objected, applying it specifically to yourself, I gave you a chance (sarcastically, I admit) to tell what you actually know about linguistics, but you never did.
    Yes, I did say this, and have seen little to persuade me otherwise. If that's an insult or being impolite, so be it.
     
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  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Darby formulated a scheme.

    Just as all schemes it has some strengths and weaknesses.

    It is important to note that Darby was not a “one trick pony.” He was a prolific writer whose work has been judged by Bible scholars as esteemed.

    He translated the Bible from the original languages into English, French, German and Dutch.

    Darby was also a Calvinistic thinker who defended the view.

    One of the sadder events was when Spurgeon (IMO, influenced wrongly by certain people - “Grant”) wrote against Darby and the Brethren. When I investigated the teaching of both Spurgeon and Darby, on what was published as disagreement between them in that day, there are unimportant (IMO) differences on matters of Scriptures. However, the investigation revealed that the disagreement may have been more over style than substance.


    Perhaps, it may be wise for one to read what Darby actually wrote on doctrinal matters.

    Here is a source: The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby, Doctrinal Writings | online library of brethren writers

    Perhaps you would like to read about Darby and The Brethern.

    Here is a source: John Nelson Darby and the Brethren Assemblies

    Personally, I do not hold to the scheme propagated popularly by writers such as LaHaye and Jenkins. To much conjecture and Hollywood.

    I am pre-mill because that is obliged by the most exact and literal reading of all prophecy.

    I do not reject the hope of the rapture, but do not cling to such an event. If it happens, great, if not, I am not in the slightest dismayed.
     
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  18. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    First of all Thank you for getting us back on track, second thank you for information, presented very well. I will read them.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I have not called you a liar nor did I imply you are a liar. And neither did anyone else.

    Nobody called you uneducated.

    John made a general statement regarding those who are "linguistically illiterate." John is an accomplished linguist. I, on the other hand, am "linguistically illiterate." I consider that an accurate assessment of my linguistic abilities. It certainly is not demeaning or insulting to recognize my own linguistic abilities, or the lack thereof.

    So far, the preponderance of the evidence indicates that to be a true statement. You have been on the forum for about 3 weeks and every post has been debating eschatology, either in one of the many eschatology threads, or in the Covenant or Preterism or similar thread. You have made no posts in any of the Baptist discussion threads or in any of the Fellowhship threads.
     
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  20. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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