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Is man restricted to his own Nature?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Dec 1, 2017.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Apparently it is to more than a Pelagian since I am not one.
     
    #101 Revmitchell, Dec 2, 2017
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Are you?
     
    #102 Revmitchell, Dec 2, 2017
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    In light of Rom. 8:7; 1 Cor. 2:14; and Eph. 2:1 the sinner is incapable (i.e. unable) to repent and believe because they are in bondage to sin. So, total inability is not an inaccurate statement so long as it includes the emendation that the sinner is unable apart from the Holy Spirit making him able through regeneration. Tom rightly said (in an earlier post) that the sinner has no desire for salvation. The sinner's problem is seen in Proverbs 26:11. The dog returns to his own vomit. It is kind of like the line that was used in the 2012 election; if you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. A sinner cannot display repentance or saving faith unless he is made able to by the Holy Spirit; even while the sinner is still dead in his trespasses and sin.

    Ephesians 2:4-5 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
     
    #103 Reformed, Dec 2, 2017
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The word of God says men are able to repent and believe through the preaching of the gospel. Romans 10:17

    It says nothing about being regenerated first. No scripture says any such thing. The power is found in the gospel Romans 1:16
     
    #104 Revmitchell, Dec 2, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    But sinners always will reject that good news apart from the Holy Spirit enabling them to receive it!
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Dec 2, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. That which He decrees (His decretal will) will come to pass with Him as First Cause.

    His Permissive will is that which He allows but He is not the First Cause.
     
    #106 TCassidy, Dec 2, 2017
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Scripture?
     
    #107 TCassidy, Dec 2, 2017
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    When talking about regeneration with Nicodemus, Jesus said, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5).

    We enter the kingdom of God when we become Christians at conversion. But Jesus says that we have to be born “of the Spirit” before we can do that.

    Our inability to come to Christ on our own, without an initial work of God within us, is also emphasized when Jesus says, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), and “No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father” (John 6:65).

    This inward act of regeneration is described beautifully when Luke says of Lydia, “The Lord opened her heart to give heed to what was said by Paul” (Acts 16:14). First the Lord opened her heart, then she was able to give heed to Paul’s preaching and to respond in faith.

    The idea that regeneration comes before saving faith is not always understood by evangelicals today. Sometimes people will even say something like, “If you believe in Christ as your Savior, then (after you believe) you will be born again.” But Scripture itself never says anything like that. This new birth is viewed by Scripture as something that God does within us in order to enable us to believe.

    The reason that evangelicals often think that regeneration comes after saving faith is that they see the results (love for God and his Word, and turning from sin) after people come to faith, and they think that regeneration must therefore have come after saving faith. Yet here we must decide on the basis of what Scripture tells us, because regeneration itself is not something we see or know about directly: “The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:8).

    Because Christians often tend to focus on the results of regeneration, rather than the hidden spiritual act of God itself, some evangelical statements of faith have contained wording that suggests that regeneration comes after saving faith.

    If we use language that closely conforms to the actual wording of Scripture, we would restrict the word “regeneration” to the instantaneous, initial work of God in which he imparts spiritual life to us.

    Then we can emphasize that we do not see regeneration itself but only the results of it in our lives, and that faith in Christ for salvation is the first result that we see.

    In fact, we can never know that we have been regenerated until we come to faith in Christ, for that is the outward evidence of this hidden, inward work of God. Once we do come to saving faith in Christ, we know that we have been born again.

    Regeneration - What does it mean to be born again? by Wayne A. Grudem
     
    #108 TCassidy, Dec 2, 2017
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Of course calling peop
    I've read the Bible many times in my life and I can tell you there is no total depravity in scripture.
    Total depravity claims man is unable to respond. He can't hear or see the truth. Right now there is a boat load of Calvinist that can't understand the simple truth. The Bible says clearly we can hear.
    Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
    Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
    The Bible tells us clearly that the Gentiles can and do hear.
    Making total depravity false doctrine.
    Prove it wrong with clear scripture that needs no explanation. Don't hand me a bunch of verses that clear;y do not back up total depravity. Not one of you have proven total depravity.
    MB
     
    #109 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    None are so blind as those who just will not see. You couldn't prove total depravity with scripture if your life depended on it. You have made this claim many times over the years that total depravity is truth . Prove it with scripture. You can't can you?.
    MB
     
    #110 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Your question doesn't prove your point what's the matter can't you prove total depravity with scripture?
    MB
     
    #111 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Then show us with scripture and stop making claims you haven't backed up
     
    #112 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Show me where scripture states men are total depraved. You haven't yet, you just make claims that you have. Nothing you've said so far proves one thing in Calvinism.
    MB
     
    #113 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1 John 9-13 Nasb
    9 There was which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Dec 2, 2017
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't prove we are totally depraved. May I remind you that a dead man can't walk or talk He can't even move with out the spirit to quicken the flesh. A dead man is just plumb dead.

    I like the way Calvinist scurry around trying to prove an unprovable theory. They post a lot of scripture that has nothing to do with the discussion when read in context.
    MB
     
    #115 MB, Dec 2, 2017
  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am happy to know that you are a source of authority, Pope MB.

    Try again.

    Do you have a verse for that? LOL

    You do not even know what Total Depravity is.

    You are a hoot. You set up the parameters by which you will engage your interlocutor.

    Just think, I do not even have to pay for this type of quality entertainment.
     
    #116 Reformed, Dec 2, 2017
  17. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Do you have a verse that does not require an explanation that I scurrying? I could be meandering or doing a slow saunter.
     
    #117 Reformed, Dec 2, 2017
  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You are Pope MB. How can I compete with you?
     
    #118 Reformed, Dec 2, 2017
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Duh... I’m not trying to prove a point as much as I am asking your stance to prove yours. Your position starkly resembles the Roman Catholic theology minus the confession box. Your position makes it possible to save myself, your position makes Christ unnessary, your position makes me master of my own destiny, with Christ a passive bystander pleading with me to Choose God and not Lucifer... because what, I will go to hell when I die. If that’s the case thanks cause sin is fun and I can sin for a long long time before I kick off.
     
    #119 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 2, 2017
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You know what MB stands for... I suggest it stands for massive brain damage :Tongue
    Ahhh just joking:D I can do that now that it’s all about me & my choices, right?

    BTW and as a side note, what do you think the demeanor of the devil really is? Some say he is somber, but I believe he laughs. Contemplating the world with any degree of gravity has to convince anybody that it’s totally absurd and the devil knows that! :Devilish
     
    #120 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 2, 2017
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