1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Can We Talk?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 2, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 6 of 8
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am a one point Calvinist and a 2 point Arminians (Christ died as a ransom for all mankind, and God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth.)
     
    #101 Van, Dec 6, 2017
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,921
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I’m sorry to inform you however there is no such thing as a 2.5 Calvinist. You see, the Doctrines of Grace ( all 5 of them ) all stand or fall together and together they point to one central truth... that salvation is all of grace because it is all of God. And because it is all of God. It is all for his glory.
     
    #102 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 6, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep. The common failing of self-centered man is that salvation is all about him and not all about God.

    Wrong view:

    I got saved.
    I am indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
    I am going to heaven.

    Right view:

    God saved me.
    God the Holy Spirit indwells me.
    God will take me to Heaven.

    All of Him. None of me.
     
    #103 TCassidy, Dec 6, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    24
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was joking when I said that. But as a matter of fact there are many 4 point Calvinists. They do not believe in Limited Atonement. I'm sure you are aware of that.
     
    #104 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ said, "your faith has healed you" not the faith I instilled healed you. God credits our faith as righteousness, or not, see Romans 4:4-5, and Romans 4:23-24. Thus we are saved through faith (our faith in Christ when credited by God as righteousness)
     
    #105 Van, Dec 6, 2017
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,686
    Likes Received:
    389
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Firstly, Calvinism does not teach that men do not exercise faith.

    Secondly, if I gave you a gift, say $1,000,000 (I'm rich and generous, in case you weren't aware ;)) once I hand you the cash, is it your money or mine? Are you responsible for its use or am I?

    Third, why do you have and exercise faith but your neighbor does not? What is it about you that is different than him?
     
    #106 thatbrian, Dec 7, 2017
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,686
    Likes Received:
    389
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. when sinful mankind looks at the world, he sees it with himself as the center of that world. This does not instantly change when he becomes a Christian, as many of us know and can attest to.

    Man seeing himself as the main actor in the drama of redemption is evidence of the damage done by the Fall. The apostle Paul said, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." (Romans 12:2)

    I would argue that this renewal happens through careful study, good teaching, and the one anothering of life in the local church. Through these means, we learn to see things from the proper perspective.
     
    #107 thatbrian, Dec 7, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How can we talk when you offer obfuscation, no one claimed Calvinism teaches people do not exercise faith.
    How can we talk when gifts are not bribes with strings attached. More obfuscation
    How can we talk when you deny God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, not faith He instilled?

    All these Calvinist chestnuts have been asked and answered many times before, whereas Calvinists do not respond to the scripture teaching fallen men can understand spiritual milk, can seek God, and can have their faith credited as righteousness. Total Spiritual Inability has been shown to be bogus based on Matthew 23:13, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3, and Romans 4:4-5, 4:23-24.
     
    #108 Van, Dec 7, 2017
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    William Craig lane is very smart, but he had adopted the philosophy of this world, as he really denies that God is sovereign!
     
    #109 Yeshua1, Dec 7, 2017
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No such animal exists, one is either a calvinist or not!
     
    #110 Yeshua1, Dec 7, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,686
    Likes Received:
    389
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How can we talk, period? You are not interested in talking.
     
    #111 thatbrian, Dec 7, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Problem though is that none of the scriptures actually prove what you believe!
     
    #112 Yeshua1, Dec 7, 2017
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you just post yet another taint so post? And did your co-hort just affirm he is a mind reader. :)

    Folks, note the pattern, the lack of discussion is my fault, I did not make an argument, and I do not want to discuss different understandings of scripture. Meanwhile I provided a definition of total spiritual inability, and explained my view that the bible teaches the fallen suffer from Limited Spiritual Ability, able to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual meat.
     
    #113 Van, Dec 7, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Except that Paul never stated to us that the lost/unsaved can understand the spiritual meaning of any of the scriptures!
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Dec 8, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I provided a recipe for 5 Alarm Chili that completely disproves all your theology.

    (Kind of a stupid statement, isn't it? Almost as bad as your describing something not found in TULIP and claiming victory on the basis of your chili recipe.) :)
     
    #115 TCassidy, Dec 8, 2017
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another bunny trail. Paul taught that men of flesh could understand spiritual milk, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3
     
    #116 Van, Dec 8, 2017
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I quoted a respected Reformed definition, one of their ploys is to disavow the obvious. Here is the Total Inability definition again
     
    #117 Van, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But the "respected Reformed definition" is not what we are talking about. We are talking about Total Depravity (NOT the bogus "total inability").

    Total Depravity has already been explained to you insofar as the term is used here. Why reject the truth in favor of a mischaracterization?
     
    #118 TCassidy, Dec 8, 2017
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Another ploy is to change the subject. :) Folks, why target the smoke screen when the Destroyer is in plain view? Total Spiritual Inability is bogus theology as demonstrated by Matthew 23:13, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3 and Romans 4:4-5, 4:23-24.
     
    #119 Van, Dec 8, 2017
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Van, you seem confused concerning what Paul meant by "carnal." He is talking to Christians, saved people, who walk after the flesh rather than after the Spirit. You have based your entire soteriology on a mistaken understanding of how Paul uses a single word.

    Paul makes it very clear what he means by "carnal."

    1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

    The "carnal" are "in Christ." Paul uses a completely different word, with a completely different meaning, in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

    σαρκικοις in 3:1 and ψυχικος 2:14.
     
    #120 TCassidy, Dec 8, 2017
Page 6 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...