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Featured Preventing God's Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Before presenting the passage, let's look at who the Book of Ephesians is written to:

    Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    Skip on down to chapter 6 and he's still addressing saints correct?

    6Ephesians 6
    Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

    2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

    3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

    4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

    5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

    6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

    Question, if a saint(see chapter1 verse 1) fails to obey his parents, honor his father or mother, provoke not his children to wrath, or, as an employee, always obey his boss as to the Lord and not as a "men pleaser", has he failed to do the will of God? Or, if saints just automatically do all this, why did brother Paul have to exhort "saints" to do them? And it they aren't doing them, are they "preventing" or "thwarting" the will of God.
     
    #1 SheepWhisperer, Dec 11, 2017
  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    The Will of God by R.C. Sproul
     
    #2 thatbrian, Dec 11, 2017
  3. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Romans 12
    I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    "Brethren" "God's sheep", that "know his voice" must be "beseeched" to "present their bodies a living sacrifice" and to "be not conformed to this world" And to "renew their minds" and if they're not doing these things, they are preventing God's will for their lives. Do "brethren" do that? You better believe they do when they do things like insult and mock one another on internet forums. So, explain to me how God's will isn't being "thwarted" there?
     
    #3 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Does God will a child have bone cancer?
     
    #4 thatbrian, Dec 12, 2017
  5. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    The Bible says God warned Adam not to eat the fruit. When Adam disobeyed and did it anyway, God said that "death passed upon all men". The Bible also says that :"the whole creation groaneth". We live in a sin-cursed world. So, no, I would say that it was not God's will that ANY child have "bone cancer" or any other disease.

    But the Bible specifically says that it's God's will that all should come to repentance and that none should perish(that means in Hell). And Romans 12:2 indicates that it's God's will that we present out bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God and to be not conformed to the world. I don't always do that; do you? So tell me, how is that any different from a sinner disobeying God's perfect will by rejecting Jesus Christ as their savior? And just because they reject Christ, how does that make God any weaker, or "non' sovereign" than you do when you aren't obeying His will to walk in the Spirit and not conform to the world?
     
    #5 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Is God powerless to stop it?
     
    #6 thatbrian, Dec 13, 2017
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  7. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    No
     
    #7 SheepWhisperer, Dec 13, 2017
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Notice you don't get an answer from the Calvinist, you get questions in return.
     
    #8 InTheLight, Dec 13, 2017
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Which you can't answer.
     
    #9 TCassidy, Dec 13, 2017
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    #10 MB, Dec 13, 2017
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  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Does He take pleasure in the fact that children have bone cancer?
     
    #11 thatbrian, Dec 13, 2017
  12. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Maybe they are the wrong questions ;)
     
    #12 JonShaff, Dec 13, 2017
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    SheepWhisperer said:
    To which thatbrain asked:
    That seems like the right question to me. If it is NOT God's will for any child have bone cancer or any other disease, then that begs the question, "Is God powerless to stop it?" If not, why doesn't He?

    This goes directly to the question "If God can save all people, why doesn't He?"
     
    #13 TCassidy, Dec 13, 2017
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  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Is Christ's finished Work on the Cross a just means to give that Child Hope? So, while it may not have been God's "desire" for that child to have cancer, it is God's "desire" for him to be made into the Image of Christ, never to be affected by cancer again. Eternal perspective trumps temporal-focused questions.

    So I suppose again, maybe he asked the wrong question?
     
    #14 JonShaff, Dec 13, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Nope. The right question. And it produced a response from you regarding the decretal will of God and the permissive will of God.

    As a parent who lost a little boy 40 years ago I did a lot of bible study bathed in a lot of prayer to come to the place that I could accept God's will in this matter.

    Glad to see you are thinking about these things. :)

    But you did sidestep the second part of the question, "If God is able to save everybody why doesn't He?"
     
    #15 TCassidy, Dec 13, 2017
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  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I am with you, my brother. We praise God for His sufficient grace in our greatest hour of need. Only the comfort of God can touch the deep recesses of our soul and sooth the pain of such loss. Godspeed my brother.
     
    #16 JonShaff, Dec 13, 2017
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I didn't see this part when I replied.

    I can only answer that with the limited amount of understanding that I have. When I asked my wife to marry me, in the grand scheme of things, she knew nothing about me. But from what she did know, she said "yes" to my proposal.

    While this may be a terrible analogy, I believe it sheds light on the nature of God and His free gift. God gave us knowledge of who He is through His Son Jesus Christ. And the Word is Light itself. While we may not have the slightest clue as to what "Salvation" is all about, God declares His righteousness through His Son Jesus Christ: His Finished work on the Cross and His Resurrection and Ascension. Through the Preaching of God's Word, there is a Call, a Proposal, if you will. And, while we cannot sufficiently explain the implications of our conversion, we most certainly can respond in *Faith*, Yielding to the Proposal of God, to be His and His Alone.

    Some reject, because they love being single, self-dependent, and "in control"

    Some accept, because they believe the offer of God outweighs the prior realities of their world, laid bear and open for them to compare with the riches of God's Grace in Christ Jesus.

    is this not the Epitome of Love? Not that we loved God, But that God Loved Us and proposed to us in quite the dramatic fashion--through the Eternal love Gift of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
    #17 JonShaff, Dec 13, 2017
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Tom, you have explained the intent of my questions perfectly. Thanks.

    Who is "us"? You are aware that countless millions/billions have lived and died without ever hearing the name of Christ let alone owned a Bible, or have the ability to read one if they did, right?

    Your wife had an infinitely greater opportunity to know you before agreeing to marry you than much of the world's population currently does to know Christ and His gospel.

    Life in 2017 Nashville, TN is not the same as life in 1017 or even 2017 Iraq, China, Guatemala, Cuba, N Korea. . .
     
    #18 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
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  19. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Can you prove with 100% certainty they did not get a chance to be saved?
     
    #19 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Is there salvation in any other name but Jesus? Is there another way to be saved other than through faith in Christ, through the hearing of the gospel? Does your Bible provide for some alternative way? Mine does not.
     
    #20 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
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