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Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election

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thatbrian

thatbrian

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Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in nature. He may rule the fish in the ocean and the waves of the sea. . . Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in governments. They allow Him to rule over the outcome of wars, the location of borders, and even US election results! However, when it comes to the clay that He has formed into men, He is bound by their actions and "free will". He must always and only act in the spaces that men's will leave open for Him to act in.

Men hate the idea of God's sovereignty in election because they hate the idea of God's sovereignty over them.

Do you allow for God's sovereignty except over your will? Is that the line in the sand that the King of Kings must not cross?
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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I love God's Sovereignty in Election. How incredible it is to watch God's hand from Genesis 3:15 all the way through Matthew 1:16!
 
M

MB

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thatbrian said:
Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in nature. He may rule the fish in the ocean and the waves of the sea. . . Men typically have no problem with God's sovereignty in governments. They allow Him to rule over the outcome of wars, the location of borders, and even US election results! However, when it comes to the clay that He has formed into men, He is bound by their actions and "free will". He must always and only act in the spaces that men's will leave open for Him to act in.

Men hate the idea of God's sovereignty in election because they hate the idea of God's sovereignty over them.

Do you allow for God's sovereignty except over your will? Is that the line in the sand that the King of Kings must not cross?
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Your problem is you have no idea of what God's plan is. You assume you know but you refuse to admit that God's will is that all men be saved. Not just some particular Calvinist. You deny what scripture actually says in favor of the sayings of Calvinist of the past. You hold the ideas of men as truth instead of scripture.

This certainly isn't the Idea of God. God making all decisions for man. While men just mindlessly do and become what ever God directs, Even the sin men commit was directed by God. Leaving men innocent pawns directed by a force of God to do them. Your idea of sovereignty makes God in to a liar making Him more like Satan that Satan himself. Not to mention this idea of man is completely non biblical.
No where in scripture is there ever even one Gentile shown to be elect.
No where in scripture is God ever described as Sovereign. He is all mighty
MB
MB
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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MB said:
You assume you know but you refuse to admit that God's will is that all men be saved.
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This is a falsehood. We all believe 1 Timothy 2:4 is true.

MB said:
You hold the ideas of men as truth instead of scripture.
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This is a falsehood. We all believe in the Scriptures as the supreme and final authority in all matters of faith, practice, and understanding.

MB said:
This certainly isn't the Idea of God. God making all decisions for man.
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Another falsehood. People make decisions every day.

MB said:
While men just mindlessly do and become what ever God directs,
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Another falsehood. People reap the consequences of their own acts.

MB said:
Even the sin men commit was directed by God.
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This is not only a falsehood, it is a blasphemous falsehood.

MB said:
Leaving men innocent pawns directed by a force of God to do them.
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Another blasphemous falsehood.

MB said:
Your idea of sovereignty makes God in to a liar making Him more like Satan that Satan himself.
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More blasphemous falsehood.

MB said:
No where in scripture is there ever even one Gentile shown to be elect.
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Another falsehood. Colossians 3:11,12.

MB said:
No where in scripture is God ever described as Sovereign.
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"He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Colossians 1:17).

Psalm 115:3 “Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.”

Proverbs 16:9 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.”

Genesis 50:20 “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.”

Romans 8:28 “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.”

Isaiah 40:23 “who brings princes to nothing, and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness.”

2 Chronicles 20:6 “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you.”

Zechariah 4:6 “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of hosts.”

To deny the Sovereignty of God is to deny the Transcendental God of the Bible.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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JonShaff said:
Would not that be the greatest demonstration of Sovereignty? The act of giving Choice?
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No, not the greatest, but certainly one aspect of His Sovereignty. We all make choices every day. Good people (in whom dwells the Holy Spirit) make good (we hope) choices and evil people make evil choices. Each person makes choices according to their nature.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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TCassidy said:
No, not the greatest, but certainly one aspect of His Sovereignty. We all make choices every day. Good people (in whom dwells the Holy Spirit) make good (we hope) choices and evil people make evil choices. Each person makes choices according to their nature.
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So good people can make good and evil choices and evil people can only make evil choices?
 
R

Revmitchell

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Lost people make good choices even biblical choices. Lost people help the poor and the widows selflessly. Lost people often treat their families in a biblical manner at least in part. Etc.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Sovereignty is in the mind of the Calvinist not scripture. God is all mighty. Calvinist say God is Sovereign and then restrict God from giving men the right to choose who they will serve. There idea of Sovereign is limited to the false doctrine of Calvinism.
MB
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
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JonShaff said:
So good people can make good and evil choices and evil people can only make evil choices?
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Yes. Good (saved) people have two natures, the old man, and the new man. So either can influence the choice.

The evil (unsaved) people only have one nature, the old man, who will influence every choice.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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Administrator
Revmitchell said:
Lost people make good choices even biblical choices. Lost people help the poor and the widows selflessly. Lost people often treat their families in a biblical manner at least in part. Etc.
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Matt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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TCassidy said:
Yes. Good (saved) people have two natures, the old man, and the new man. So either can influence the choice.

The evil (unsaved) people only have one nature, the old man, who will influence every choice.
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So a lost person saving a child from drowning is evil, got it. You make no sense.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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TCassidy said:
Matt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
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Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

[Edited: Name calling.]
 
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