The Rod of Iron Rule....when is it? How does it work?

[AGTG]

This is merely a reference to the wrath of God coming upon the nations, not a descriptor of Jesus' Millenial Kingdom reign:

Revelation 19
15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

 

[John of Japan]

Lol. That was proven in the Garden, and on Sinai, and is proven everyday Anno Domini.

You say "already proven," then list different ways it was proven, then object when I add one more way it is proven. Completely illogical post.

Besides, the oft-stated purpose is to fulfill a supposed hitherto yet unfulfilled promise to Abraham, which makes more sense, but I'm amazed at the way they just make stuff up postulate their notions as revelation itself.

This is a nasty attack. Saying that we "postulate their notions as revelation itself" is false. I have never done that, nor has any premillennialist I've ever known. Put up or shut up. Who has done this? Give a quote that proves your attack.

If I were actually doing what you say, I would not even be saved (Rev. 22:18-19), but worthy of the lake of fire.

 

[John of Japan]

That is what you're reading into it. The wording of the Commission is otherwise. The wording is, "go into the world and preach to every creature" (Mark) and "teach all nations."

Apparently you've never actually studied the Great Commission. It is common knowledge that "teach" in Matthew 28:19 is the Greek word matheteuo," which means "make a disciple of someone" (Friberg's Anlex).

 

[Aaron]

You say "already proven," then list different ways it was proven, then object when I add one more way it is proven. Completely illogical post.

Saying the purpose of something is to prove a point already proven many times over renders it vain and needless.

So you have a vain and needless millennium, seeing it's point, according to your statement, is to do just that.

This is a nasty attack. Saying that we "postulate their notions as revelation itself" is false. I have never done that, nor has any premillennialist I've ever known. Put up or shut up. Who has done this? Give a quote that proves your attack.

I quoted you above. Did you mean to say one purpose of the millennium may be to prove that man is rebellious even when he has a perfect ruler?

 

[Aaron]

Apparently you've never actually studied the Great Commission. It is common knowledge that "teach" in Matthew 28:19 is the Greek word matheteuo," which means "make a disciple of someone" (Friberg's Anlex).

How does that change anything I said? Preach to every creature. "Make disciples" of the nations.

 

[agedman]

Saying the purpose of something is to prove a point already proven many times over renders it vain and needless.

So you have a vain and needless millennium, seeing it's point, according to your statement, is to do just that.

I quoted you above. Did you mean to say one purpose of the millennium may be to prove that man is rebellious even when he has a perfect ruler?

Aaron, where do you construct your evidence for stating, “Saying the purpose of something is to prove a point already proven many times over renders it vain and needless.” ?

The purpose of the millennium is to fulfill the promise of God.

Just as the first advent was to fulfill the promise of God.

Something proven over and over does not make it vain and needless.

The Scriptures are repetitive about the human condition as sinful.

Such proven over and over did not render the proof any less factual, the human condition is still sinful.

Four Gospels and all the letters of the N.T address the Christ. Such repetition did not make the Christ vain and needless.

The millennium is not vain and needless.

Repetition does not render anything vain and meaningless unless it is foundationally vain and meaningless, like some modern “worship songs.”

 

[John of Japan]

Saying the purpose of something is to prove a point already proven many times over renders it vain and needless.

Edify me. At what point does God saying something make it vain and needless. Seven times? Seventy times seven?

So you have a vain and needless millennium, seeing it's point, according to your statement, is to do just that.

Don't tell that to me. If God wants it, it is not "vain and needless." In fact, how could anything that glorifies Christ be "vain and needless"? I find that a bizarre statement. Object to the prophecy in Rev. 20 if you must, or allegorize it, but don't call Christ ruling on an earthly throne "vain and needless."

I quoted you above. Did you mean to say one purpose of the millennium may be to prove that man is rebellious even when he has a perfect ruler?

My objection was to your saying that I thought my own view was "added revelation." That's nasty. That's saying God should take my name out of the book of life. Stop dodging your own personal attack. Either apologize or double up and say yeah, JoJ, you deserve to go to Hell.

 

[John of Japan]

How does that change anything I said? Preach to every creature. "Make disciples" of the nations.

You said that the Great Commission does not mean "make disciples of all nations." I corrected you. Man up. You made a mistake.

 

[Covenanter]

John, if I remember correctly, in the previous thread we only learnt from you about the first dispensation -

Now, how does a dispensation work? We start with the dispensation of Innocence, which is the time of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. It's a perfect example. We don't know how long they were there--how many years the dispensation was in place, or how long the era was. That's not important; the stewardship and God's glory are important.

God gave mankind (two people at the time) commands, constituting their stewardship.
:
Gen. 1:28--And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
2:16-17--And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

As we all know, Adam and Eve failed at their stewardship, showing mankind as frail and weak, but God Himself as perfect yet full of compassion and justice. In other words, God was glorified by the failure of Adam and Eve, giving us a wonderful picture of who He really is.

More Monday.

Monday never arrived ... please tell us the next dispensation.

 

[John of Japan]

John, if I remember correctly, in the previous thread we only learnt from you about the first dispensation -

Monday never arrived ... please tell us the next dispensation.

I spoke of the millennium (the final dispensation) in post #5 of that thread. But you're right, I never got through the 7 dispensations, though I got to the 2nd one, Conscience, in post #97. I spoke also of the Church Age (a term I prefer to the more common "Age of Grace") in Posts #113 and 160.

 

[Covenanter]

I spoke of the millennium (the final dispensation) in post #5 of that thread. But you're right, I never got through the 7 dispensations, though I got to the 2nd one, Conscience, in post #97. I spoke also of the Church Age (a term I prefer to the more common "Age of Grace") in Posts #113 and 160.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

 

[John of Japan]

Thanks. I'll look them up.

The seven dispensations in order are:

1. Innocency (Adam and Eve)
2. Conscience
3. Human Government (Gen. 9:6), beginning with Noah
4. Patriarchal Rule (Abraham, etc.)
5. Law
6. Church Age (Age of Grace)
7. Millennial Reign of Christ

 

[Aaron]

Edify me. At what point does God saying something make it vain and needless. Seven times? Seventy times seven?

Don't tell that to me. If God wants it, it is not "vain and needless." In fact, how could anything that glorifies Christ be "vain and needless"? I find that a bizarre statement. Object to the prophecy in Rev. 20 if you must, or allegorize it, but don't call Christ ruling on an earthly throne "vain and needless."

My objection was to your saying that I thought my own view was "added revelation." That's nasty. That's saying God should take my name out of the book of life. Stop dodging your own personal attack. Either apologize or double up and say yeah, JoJ, you deserve to go to Hell.

But God DIDN'T say the point of the Millennium was to prove that men are rebellious and depraved "even under perfect rule." YOU said that. [And in the post I quoted you are saying God said it. So there you are postulating your notions as revelation.]

God gave the Law to prove man's sin and rebellion. He told us that. And how is Christ in Jerusalem more a perfect ruler than God was to Israel?

 

[Aaron]

You said that the Great Commission does not mean "make disciples of all nations." I corrected you. Man up. You made a mistake.

No, agedman said that. I corrected him.

 

[Aaron]

The purpose of the millennium is to fulfill the promise of God.

If you'd read the thread carefully, you'd see that I said the oft stated purpose of the millennium was to fulfill promises supposedly hitherto unfulfilled.

JoJ is saying the purpose is something else.

 

[Covenanter]

The seven dispensations in order are:

1. Innocency (Adam and Eve)
2. Conscience
3. Human Government (Gen. 9:6), beginning with Noah
4. Patriarchal Rule (Abraham, etc.)
5. Law
6. Church Age (Age of Grace)
7. Millennial Reign of Christ

My posts from the previous thread:

I think the association of time with dispensation is due to the way Eph. 1:10 reads - the dispensation of the fulness of time implying other dispensations relating to other times.

 

[Covenanter]

The seven dispensations in order are:

1. Innocency (Adam and Eve)
2. Conscience
3. Human Government (Gen. 9:6), beginning with Noah
4. Patriarchal Rule (Abraham, etc.)
5. Law
6. Church Age (Age of Grace)
7. Millennial Reign of Christ

I gave you a summary in ONE post.

A dispensation is an administration period paralleled by a spiritual condition not always discreet periods, there's overlap, animal sacrifices needed until Calvary -
e.g.
Eden - innocence ending with disobedience;
Antediluvian - grace or condemnation, ending with the flood, but obviously grace or condemnation continues;
Babel anarchy - continuing for mankind until Pentecost, & in a sense continuing until Jesus returns;
Grace - Covenant with Abraham & his seed, continuing throughout time;
Mosaic - Covenant of blessed relationship with God conditional on obedience, with various Messianic types provided for salvation of those who have a living faith;
Messianic - New Covenant in the blood of Jesus for all nations, ending all OC types, temple, priesthood, nation of Israel, ending with Jesus' return in glory;
NH&NE - all godless angels, spirits, people eternally condemned, all the redeemed with God in glory in his perfect Kingdom.

The redeemed are only ever saved by grace, through faith in Christ to the glory of God, throughout all dispensations.

After the fall, no-one could be saved by obedience, good works, law keeping etc.

Only Christ, as our Covenant Surety kept every detail of the Law as man for man - the second Adam.

 

[Covenanter]

I'll discuss these dispensations later.

 

[John of Japan]

But God DIDN'T say the point of the Millennium was to prove that men are rebellious and depraved "even under perfect rule." YOU said that. [And in the post I quoted you are saying God said it. So there you are postulating your notions as revelation.]

You have a real hard time understanding plain English. I did not say that God said it.

Do you actually understand how theology is done? You don't seem to. Dispensationalism is a theology.

God gave the Law to prove man's sin and rebellion. He told us that. And how is Christ in Jerusalem more a perfect ruler than God was to Israel?

Again, that's something I did not say. I refuse to answer your false statements about what you think I said. I will only answer you from now on when you deal with my actual words.

 

[Covenanter]

I'm copying posts & continuing on the Dispensational things thread.