Here's you chance Protestants

He said, "do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me." It is a memorial of Christ's Atoning Sacrifice AND His return for His Bride. Just like Passover was a remembrance of God "bringing the Israelites out of Egypt," and future deliverance, In Christ God "removes us from the World" and delivers us from our sins. He "sets us apart" as Holy Ones (Saints--Hagios). And since the First disciples were Jews, they would have understood the realities of a MEMORIAL. They would have vomited if someone told them that was real blood and real skin. That's what the heathens did/do.

Paul said we "Proclaim the Lord's Death until He returns"

 

You have no knowledge of Martin Luther, Martin Bucer, Heinrich Bullinger, Zwingli, Blarer, Haller, Oecolompadius, and Pierre Viret --among others? They all were Reformers before Calvin.

Remember, Calvin was only eight when Martin Luther began the reformation in October of 1517.

He did no such thing. Quitcherlyin.

 

It was Zwingli who did that, IIRC, and also Zwingli who put forward the idea that Communion was just a memorial - after nearly 1500 years of believing, from the Apostles onwards, that it was the Body and Blood of Christ

 

Your right got cut & paste mixed up, meant to mention Luther. Its a 3rd baptism coined by king Ferdinand. Everyone persecuted anabaptist including Luther and Calvin. and they definitely drowned them.


Another Point being Anabaptist are not reformers, but if you want to insist so, what denomination are they trying to reform.

Theres a difference between saying hey we protest the way its going and lets reform and change it and saying well we ARE the originals never had anything with these guys.

We Catholics are not reformed buddhist or protestant hindi for example.

The whole point baptist want to find a pedigree through the anabaptist, but if you call them reformers you are just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I did not say the Bogomils were Cathars, they came from the Pauliacans.

 

Thats the #1 reason followers dumped Jesus. Had he been symbolic its nothing "crazier" then what he stated prior.


John 5 Jesus is claiming to be God.

17But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

Equal with God great.

23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

No problem no one leaves.

24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Sounds GOOD.

26“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;

Amen no problem

John 6

51“I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”


52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”


No one had a problem with him calling himself God and equating himself as God, Neither do you Jon.

We see John 4

31Meanwhile the disciples were urging Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” 32But He said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” 33So the disciples were saying to one another, “No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?” 34Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.

Jesus is not a snob if they don't "get it". Like right here he explains.

Same group, Same disciples. ARE NOW STUNNED, Because he means it.

His disciples KNOW the way Jesus is, accepted all the claims before, clearly understand metaphors and symbolisms.


BUT THE FORK HIT THE FAN in JOHN 6

52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Jesus Christ is not a megalomaniac, He is not a SPIRITUAL SNOB stomping on people, All he is doing is telling the truth.

If he was being symbolic no one would have left, no reason to , nothing "crazier" said then before.


55“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

Now here is a important part people miss. Jesus has done this sort of thing before. Where he uses a MIRACLE to PROVE something EXTRA-ORDINARY.

They can't believe they can eat his body and blood, to help them believe they can he challenges ,What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?


Example where he did this sort of thing before:

5“Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6“But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.”

The HUGE miracle isn't the guy walking, its that HE can forgive sins.

And he is going to use the ASCENSION to HEAVEN to prove THE REAL PRESENCE, that you really do have to eat his body and drink his blood.


He's proving something CANT BE PROVEN on sight with a MIRACLE you DO SEE. If it were just symbolism NO BODY would have had a problem with that.


I can forgive sins, don't believe me? Well what if I tell this guy to get up and walk.

You must eat my body and drink my blood, Don't believe me? Well what if you see me ascend back into heaven?

 

Everyone? Talk about a broad sweep!

Why do you post falsehoods?

I made no such claims. You must be confusing me with someone else.

 

And all three groups were Gnostic heretics

 

No sir you are not following my conversation with the other guy.


Falsehoods? A falsehood is claiming the bible has a written RULE, That the bible is final and only authority concerning Christianity, and then not being able to post the verse that says exactly just that.

Call me a Liar after coughing up the verse your faith swears exists.

 

If we just read the text, in context, we can easily see that Jesus wasn't urging His followers to become cannibals. This is how Jesus explain His previous words regarding His flesh and blood:

John 6:63–65

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [64] But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) [65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (ESV)​

Many disciples left because they didn't like "Calvinism" (same as today). The verse which immediately precedes their leaving explains why they left.

John 6:65–66

[65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

[66] After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. (ESV)​

 

You addressed your post #66 to me. I responded to it in post #69.

Yes, falsehoods. You make utterly inane and completely untrue claims about Luther and Calvin drowning people.
What you have done is called lying, to be ultra clear.

 

No. That's just how I was saved. There's work to be done after that.

Fasting in itself is not counter biblical but believers have some latitude as to whether we fast or not.

The RCC concept of fasting is based on what I and most other Protestants view as bad hermeneutics. As mentioned, Lent commemorates His 40 days in the wilderness, which occurred at the beginning of His earthly ministry, while His death, burial and resurrection were clearly not.

So then if an act is not salvific, and no human action is, nor is it inherently sanctifying as is every imperative given in Scripture, then it is reasonable to question whether it is beneficial or is it hanging longer tassels on my robe?

I'll un-mix my metaphors: even if I were to fast, nobody would hear about it because the one who touts his own holiness has received his reward.

However, if the Spirit moves you to fast for a period, do so!

May the Lord bless those who actively seek Him and His will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Question, then: if salvation if by faith alone, what do you mean by that word 'faith'? Is it an intellectual assent to a set of propositions, a belief of some kind, or more than that? If the last, what is the 'more' element? And where does that leave the concept of love? Christianity is above all surely a relationship of love with God, and I seem to remember that Someone once said, "If you love Me, then keep My commandments." Do you therefore love the Lord by keeping His commandments?

 

We do not want to disappoint the one we love. Salvation is not dependent on our actions, Our action are dependent on our salvation.

 

That answers the second leg of my question - sort of: it also begs more questions though. What if you don't keep His commandments? What if you don't love Him? Are you still saved?

 

If not, you (and I) are in big trouble, for who among us loves God and neighbor perfectly?

 

Come to Jesus and believe in Jesus. That's how we "eat and drink" of Him. At least that's the way that He describes.

John 6:35

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. (ESV)

 

Many Baptist churches including a few SBC churches are starting to observe Ash Wednesday with services and a few are doing ashes.