Here's you chance Protestants

[thatbrian]

What gospel does the Catholic Church preach? Why only the death and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins. Stop! Period! End of story! So much so that the RCC preaches it, it is Christ's sacrifice that is the focal point of our worship service, each and every one of them. Your focal point of worship on the other hand is the pulpit, not the altar.



Yes, counter biblical traditions such as OSAS, Sola Scriptura, and hundreds if not thousands of new Christian sects with each claiming to being able to discern the real truth of it all.

You may be able to get away with that with someone who has no experience in the RCC; however, I was raised it it, and the "gospel" of the RCC is not the gospel of Christ or Paul.

 

[Matt Black]

it is man-made mysticism that said the wine and bread turns into blood and skin. WHERE does it say that it does that? That is an invention of a reprobate mind. Where does it say that the bread and wine will *magically turn into blood and skin*? What chapter and verse is that? Friend, I'm being dead serious. Leave the Rcc lies, Turn to the Truth--Trust and Treasure the Finished Work of Jesus Christ. Be set Free!

Um...Jesus' words. Guess He had a 'reprobate mind'; I expect that's why they crucified Him...

 

[Matt Black]

If not, you (and I) are in big trouble, for who among us loves God and neighbor perfectly?

I don't love my wife perfectly, yet I love her and we are married. What makes a marriage: is it just the wedding ceremony and marriage certificate? Or is it also a lifetime of love, growing together and laying down our lives for each other through acts of loving service? If the latter is absent, then is there really a marriage?

 

[Matt Black]

yes, and many are having a midnight candle service at Christmas ,
Theu do not know who they are as Baptists nor the history,

Who died and appointed you arbiter of who's a Baptist and who isn't?

 

[JonShaff]

Um...Jesus' words. Guess He had a 'reprobate mind'; I expect that's why they crucified Him...

Where did Christ the Lord say that wafers and wine will magically turn into Blood and Skin? Repent of your Sin or perish.

 

[supersoldier71]

You can't just pick and choose verses brother:

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, evenChrist; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

You got the middle verse down pat, What about Don't call no man rabbi(teacher), And don't call any man MASTER, MR. is abbreviation of Master.


Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, I love Jesus.


""All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17"

Amen Scripture is USEFUL. Helps for doing GOOD WORKS which some would argue is useless anyways.

I asked you for a simple verse and you have not delivered.


Show us where the bible says it is the FINAL and ONLY authority. If its not in the bible, ergo unbiblical say that then, else show us the verse.

There is just one tiny wall between us brother. Sola Scriptura and Faith Alone.

You swear a rule has to be in the bible to be an official rule, that it is the final and only authority. You swear that rule is written out in the bible.

Fine show it to me. I think you add stuff to the bible, You are not going to show me a bible verse, Ive been waiting 500 years for it.

Clearly I misspoke if you conclude that there is only a "tiny" wall between us.

Father: Christ claimed that for Himself, not the man with the title in Rome.

And enough with the bad hermeneutics: it leads to indulgences and a morality that sways with the needs of expedience and financial gain.

Or have you forgotten that whenever the RCC has had to choose between financial gain and the Word of God, it changed its tradition to suit financial gain.

What would one day about a professing brother who did the same?

The RCC is remarkably consistent in relegating God's Word as less than absolutely authoritative.

Which is good for the true Body of Christ because the RCC's abominations are clear to anyone who cares to look.

Indulgences, the blessing of slave ships by the Pope, the Crusades, executing men and women for distributing Bibles, pedophilia, money laundering and every other evil under the sun.

The name of Christ is blasphemed among the nonbelievers because of the Catholic Church.


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[Matt Black]

No they weren't. Rome taught that all 'heretics' as she called them, were Manacheans, and as that sect had been declared heretic they could kill them all. The book of Revelation declares that Rome will persecute the saints, but Rome says she doesn't persecute saints only heretics and she has a perfect right to persecute and kill them.

Rome is the centre of heretics. The true church of witness to the gospel of Christ has always been there but suppressed by the persecutions or Rome and Constantinople. In 2 Thessalonians 2 we have the man of sin sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be god. Paul says that the church is now the temple of God.

Paul says also in 2 Thess That some one and some thing was restraining the son of perdition and Paul when he was with them told them what they were. We can expect that the early church would have passed that information on and they would have written it down, and they did with remarkable unaninimity that it was the Roman empire and the emperor who would be removed. That was the case when Constantine removed the empire to the east. The Waldesians recognised that, and trace their separation from Rome when Sylvester was bishop. That was at the time of Constantine.

There could not be two rulers of the Roman Empire sitting in Rome at the same time, and the removal of the emperor made way for the Pope to sit his place, Just as the Caesars claimed to be divine so do the popes.

In the Book of Revelation there are two Women, The Bride and the Harlot, the false Bride. They are aldo two cities, the Holy Jerusalem and Mystery Babylon the great/ This could not be literal Babylon as some literalists say, as her paganism was not hidden, but papal paganism is hidden, its Babylonian priests call themselves 'father' and scripture says "Call no man father." Their Bishops wear the mitre of Dagon, and the auger of Osiris, enlarged and called the shepherds crook . Babylonian gods are renamed Catholic saints, and given the same roles, Eros is renamed Valentine, Bacchus and Dynosius were sainted under their own names and so on. As the pagans had a god for every occasion, (the pantheon), so Rome has a saint for every occasion in her pantheon of saints or demigods.

You don't need to quote from revelation as popes have banned the reading of that book because they knew that they were the Babylon mentioned in it. You also quote from the bible but reading that was a heresy for which there was the death penalty. So remember that if you quote from the bible, you are a heretic according to your own church.

Roman religion is a pseudo Christian cult.

Believe on Jesus Christ for as peter said "There is salvation in no other."

Q "What must I do to be saved?"

A, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved,"

Where's your evidence for all these outlandish claims? They are so manifestly inaccurate that I don't know where to start.

Let's kick off with your claim that the RCC has banned Revelation - why, then, is it in their Lectionary (Ok, they call it The Apocalypse but that's just an Anglicisation of the original Greek title - it's the same book)?

The Waldensians originated in south-east France in the 12th century - nothing to do with Constantine. I suppose you can regard them as proto-Protestants or proto-Evangelicals if you want , but they weren't proto-Baptists (they wouldn't have understood the concept of believer's baptism); most accurately they were perhaps proto-Franciscans, anticipating a lot of the reforming ideas of Francis of Assisi a half-century later that he got away with as he was prepared to work within the Catholic Church rather than outside it, or even proto-Calvinists as they joined with Calvin's lot in the 1530s (I've been to a Waldensian church in Provence and it was pretty similar to your standard Presbyterian service).

As to Cathars and their ilk being Christian, I can hardly see how a gnostic dualist cult that advocated a fast to the death of its 'spirituals' (their elite) could be construed as 'Christian'.

As to the Early Church documenting their traditions ('traditio' = 'handing on/ passing down"), well, yes they did - but I don't expect you'll like what they wrote. Consider, for example, their writings handed down to them from the Apostolic Age on the very topic being debated on the last few pages, all within a hundred years of the death of the last of the Apostles:

Ignatius of Antioch



"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).


Justin Martyr



"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).


Irenaeus



"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (ibid., 5:2).


Clement of Alexandria



"’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Pretty clear, isn't it? As you say, 'remarkable unanimity'.

 

[Matt Black]

Where did Christ the Lord say that wafers and wine will magically turn into Blood and Skin? Repent of your Sin or perish.

If you can show me it's a sin, then by all means. But why would I perish for this one sin - surely we are saved by faith alone, brother, not by whether we agree with you on the doctrine of the Lord's Supper? I think you may be adding a few things to your own Gospel there...

 

[JonShaff]

If you can show me it's a sin, then by all means. But why would I perish for this one sin - surely we are saved by faith alone, brother, not by whether we agree with you on the doctrine of the Lord's Supper? I think you may be adding a few things to your own Gospel there...

Witchcraft is a sin. If you're trusting in a mystical practice, witchcraft, to save you, then you are perishing.

 

[Matt Black]

Witchcraft is a sin.

So are we saved by faith alone or by whether or not we (allegedly) practise witchcraft? Which is it? Or are we witnessing a case of Schroedinger's Gospel?

 

[JonShaff]

So are we saved by faith alone or by whether or not we (allegedly) practise witchcraft? Which is it? Or are we witnessing a case of Schroedinger's Gospel?

See my edit.

 

[Matt Black]

...which doesn't answer my question: am I saved by faith alone or not? If I have faith and yet can apparently be damned by what you call witchcraft, then my faith does not save me - I am not saved by faith alone. Please make up your mind and clarify whether you believe in salvation by faith alone or not

 

[JonShaff]

...which doesn't answer my question: am I saved by faith alone or not? If I have faith and yet can apparently be damned by what you call witchcraft, then my faith does not save me - I am not saved by faith alone. Please make up your mind and clarify whether you believe in salvation by faith alone or not

We are saved by God's GRACE ALONE--through faith--In the FINISHED Work of JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Matt Black]

So it doesn't matter if I occasionally attend Mass then

 

[JonShaff]

So it doesn't matter if I occasionally attend Mass then

1 Cor. 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

1 Cor. 10:22
Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

I would say it matters.

 

[JonShaff]

1 Cor. 10:23
You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is beneficial.

 

[Matt Black]

So, not 'faith alone' then for you.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[JonShaff]

So, not 'faith alone' then for you.

Thanks for clarifying

I said:
We are saved by God's GRACE ALONE--through faith--In the FINISHED Work of JESUS CHRIST.
Eph. 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

If you are trusting in a pagan, mystical practice to save you--Transubstantiation, you will be damned forever.

 

[Matt Black]

OK, this is going all over the place - now you are saying 'grace alone', not 'faith alone'. You have at least confirmed that it's not 'faith alone', so let's move on to 'grace'.

Define 'grace' - what is it, how does it work, how do we receive it?

 

[Matt Black]

1 Cor. 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

1 Cor. 10:22
Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

I would say it matters.

Yes, but I think St Paul would run a mile from you if he realised you were using his words to condemn the Mass, LOL!