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Why did God create the Universe?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Feb 16, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    so you are saying, the scripture is a lie?


    or maybe we do not understand completely?

    which one?
    Heaven rejoices at the redemption of souls, to the glory of God, Creation of the temporal , yes but the eternal is more important to them
     
    #101 loDebar, Feb 21, 2018
  2. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Psalms 82 from the YLT

    82 --1 A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge

    5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

    6 I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

    7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

    8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

    The implication that Jesus misunderstood the conversation and intended to say rulers instead of gods after being accused of saying we was God (My Father and I are one) is to say Jesus was wrong.

    Are you sure you want to do that?

    It was elohyim, gods
     
    #102 loDebar, Feb 21, 2018
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    My post explained the existence of God requires by logical necessity a location of existence, and wherever God is, is His abode. I did not say or suggest it was created.

    But in any event, it appears we are not on the same wavelength.

    Goodbye and God Blesss
     
    #103 Van, Feb 21, 2018
  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    my point agreed with you , Yet we have to accept that God created all thing includes Heaven , His abode as well,It is just Gen 1 is does not include His abode of Heaven. It is a narrative of this physical creation.

    I am sorry to not follow your point.
     
    #104 loDebar, Feb 21, 2018
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    To say God created heaven lacks clarity, the third heaven is His abode, and it must have existed eternally if God existed eternally. The first heaven refers to the earth's atmosphere, where clouds and birds exist. The second heaven refers to space where the sun, moon and stars hang out.

    So God creating heaven (or heavens one and two) does not indicate He necessarily created the third heaven, His abode. He certainly could alter His spiritual realm to sustain the Job 38:7 entities, but that would be our speculation, not the logical necessity of scripture.

    But we need to lay our bricks one on top of another.
     
    #105 Van, Feb 21, 2018
  6. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rev 4:11

    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    The 24 elders were saying this at the throne in Heaven
     
    #106 loDebar, Feb 21, 2018
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    So... take a position. Was the environment for the created entities created during the creation week, say on day one or two? It is your thread. I stated my speculation, God altered His abode as needed for the created entities such as sons of God and morning stars.
     
    #107 Van, Feb 22, 2018
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We know of two creation, one spiritual, one physical, The spiritual we know little about except God created all things and they exist. Secondly , since we know the spiritual already exists we know of a physical creation of Gen 1, etc.
    Spiritual creation is not part of Gen 1 because they already existed Job 38:7 and were separated into two groups .

    God doesn't change.

    The morning stars are unfallen spirits we call angels , the sons of God are the fallen or sinful spirits.
    We have to relate the separation to Satan and the 1/3rd angels before physical creation. Especially do to the light being created in verse 3 and the reaction of Job 38:7

    We know the earth was in darkness before light and the angels were "chained in darkness " reserved for judgement"

    There was no need for darkness until sin. There was no place for Satan , God created this physical place to hold the spiritual being, Empty and dark for the "light bearer " and others

    I recommend the Youngs Literal Translation for info on creation, especially the preface
     
    #108 loDebar, Feb 22, 2018
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No we do not. God can create spiritually and physically at the same time. We do know God existed spiritually before anything was created. We know that the spiritual creation did not exist before the Genesis 1 account, see John 1:1-3.

    Phrases like God does not change are open to interpretation. God does not change His attributes. But He does respond differently to our choices, i.e. if we repent, He will relent.

    I know of no evidence to challenge the speculation that the "sons of God" and the "morning stars" were created spiritual beings perhaps differing classes of angels. But unless we can put more meat on those bones, the best we can say is it is a possibility.
     
    #109 Van, Feb 22, 2018
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We know spiritual beings existed before darkness was created, The is no darkness in Heaven and darkness existed when the earth was without form. He can create both spiritually together, but one, spiritual beings already existed and there was no need for the physical creation until sin occurred.

    You challenge to "morning stars and sons of God" is well known to you , the angels that continue in Gods service
    (Gabriel Michael etc.) and those that left their first estate( Lucifer, evil spirits, demons).

    God does not change. We change to be correct to God.
     
    #110 loDebar, Feb 22, 2018
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets leave it that your views and mine differ. :)
     
    #111 Van, Feb 22, 2018
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rethinking is difficult.
     
    #112 loDebar, Feb 22, 2018
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Haven't read the whole thread. Apologies if this has already be touched upon.

    Col 1:16 For by him [the Son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

    The heavens and the earth were created for Christ and Him crucified. It was created for the Cross. It was Christ's work on the Cross on this earth that merited His heavenly title, and defines His Person, the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth.

    Put away any notion that God's purpose was to fill the earth with naked innocent immortals frolicking unpestered in a garden paradise.
     
    #113 Aaron, Feb 23, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I would caution against speculating too much about the angels. How can we be seated in heavenly places if we are here? Eph. 2:6

    There are aspects to the world of spirits that we're simply not told, and, as man is prone to superstition and vanity, any speculation is dubious and no real help to anyone.
     
    #114 Aaron, Feb 23, 2018
  15. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    You haven't read the thread, Christ created the physical universe to hold and redeem sinful spiritual beings through becoming a a flesh and blood as the Human. Humanity is the MO of salvation. The physical creation is a death row prison, the saved souls are pardoned

    Heb 2:14

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
     
    #115 loDebar, Feb 23, 2018
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Okay, I've skimmed over some of the posts. Cut to the chase. What's the point you're trying to make with this thread?
     
    #116 Aaron, Feb 23, 2018
  17. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Oh.

    Poppycock.
     
    #117 Aaron, Feb 23, 2018
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  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No, but I have read the Bible. And you're full of poop. Go start your own cult somewhere.
     
    #118 Aaron, Feb 23, 2018
  19. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The spiritual(soul) is more important than the physical.
    The spiritual part of us is eternal, The physical is tempory
    The spiritual is created before the physical.
    The physical universe was made to hold sinners. It is a prison.
    We were condemned when we got here
    Sin occurred before you were formed as Human .
    Humanity is the method sinful spiritual sinners are redeemed through Jesus death as a Human.
    The death of Jesus as God paid for our sins, as a Human we can share in the death

    comprehendre?
     
    #119 loDebar, Feb 23, 2018
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Are you a Mormon?
     
    #120 Aaron, Feb 24, 2018
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