Why did God create the Universe?

[loDebar]

no, Mormons deny Jesus is God, Their idea of preexistence elevates Humanity to a necessary journey for beings, to edify Heaven due to being human in reality it is a prison, We are the bad guys.. .. given a chance to be pardoned from death row

 

[Darrell C]

Psalms 82 from the YLT

82 --1 A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge

5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6 I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

The implication that Jesus misunderstood the conversation and intended to say rulers instead of gods after being accused of saying we was God (My Father and I are one) is to say Jesus was wrong.

Are you sure you want to do that?

It was elohyim, gods

You really should quote whoever it is you are referring to, so that they know who it is that being asked.

Let me ask you something: do you think this designation for Angels...makes them gods?

Secondly, where exactly, as I asked before, do Angels...


Psalm 82
King James Version (KJV)

1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


What has been emboldened is the focus of the question.

The context deals with rulers among men.

Angels, for example, are never seen to judge among men. They do not "do justice to the afflicted and needy."

Those in view will die like men, which is not possible for an Angel.

The Psalmist calls for God to arise and judge the earth, contrasted with the failures of human rulers. One of the most basic principles we learn in both Old and New Testaments is God's judgment on the rulers of men. This is seen in regards to the spiritual leaders during the Kingdom Years, and it is seen in the spiritual rulers of Christ's Day. They receive severe rebuke.

So show me where Angels can be said to do any of those things the Psalmist calls for in this Psalm.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

no, Mormons deny Jesus is God, Their idea of preexistence elevates Humanity to a necessary journey for beings, to edify Heaven due to being human in reality it is a prison, We are the bad guys.. .. given a chance to be pardoned from death row

So how does that differ from your view?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The spiritual(soul) is more important than the physical.

God created man a body and a spirit, hence man is a soul, not...man has a soul.

That is an unfortunate teaching derived out of poor understanding of Scripture, and you have bought into it.

The spiritual part of us is eternal,

Sorry, no. Only God is Eternal, men and Angels have a point at which time they come into existence.

The physical is tempory

Not entirely accurate: both the saved and the lost will be resurrected in physical bodies which will be, not eternal, but everlasting.

The spiritual is created before the physical.

Scripture?

The physical universe was made to hold sinners. It is a prison.

Scripture?

You are in direct conflict with the Genesis Account of Creation. God created the heavens and the earth and it was good.

Not a prison.

We were condemned when we got here

You and I, yes, because we were not created on a perfect world, did not have access and communion with God, but were conceived and born into a cursed world, separated from God.

Sin occurred before you were formed as Human .

And..?

Humanity is the method sinful spiritual sinners are redeemed through Jesus death as a Human.

And so you finally expose your true point: pre-existing spirits.

You are not a Baptist, not really...are you.

I think it pretty poor to come on a forum and interact under false pretenses.

The death of Jesus as God paid for our sins, as a Human we can share in the death

The death of "Jesus as God?"

Would you mind explaining that?

The death of Jesus as God paid for our sins, as a Human we can share in the death

So what sin is being paid for?

The sin that occurred prior to Creation?

That is what you believe, isn't it.

comprehendre?

Absolutely, which is why I feel very sorry for you.

No wonder you have to reject Scripture.

But it isn't too late, LoDebar, you can learn to understand Scripture for what it teaches, rather than be caught up in the doctrines of cults.

Do you also believe in Annihilation and Soul Sleep? An honest answer would be appreciated.


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

There is no time in the spirit, so that one is out, Time is the delay God's judgement. God has not chosen to annihilate us, so that one is out

 

[loDebar]

Jesus , as God, suffered death, separation as sin, for us. Jesus's death , as His death and salvation. If He was not 100% God we are not saved, If He was not 100% man ,we are not saved

 

[loDebar]

Elohim, does not always describe God as God. God is Elohim, and is also Elohim of Elohim. Angels are "messenger" in GR.. but are elohyim, with a purpose,or job which is ministering to the saints. ,,little "g".... gods,,, More than natural man, or animals. but not GOD

This is common throughout the Bible

 

[Darrell C]

There is no time in the spirit, so that one is out, Time is the delay God's judgement.

Time is not the "delay of God's judgment." Even Judgment holds the concept of time in that it is never ending.

But to clarify, are you saying you deny Soul Sleep?

God has not chosen to annihilate us, so that one is out

So you deny Annihilation, then? You affirm that the lost will eternally exist in Hell?

Jesus , as God, suffered death, separation as sin, for us.

Actually, it is quite an impossible thing for God to be "separated from God."

Scripture shows Christ dying a physical death on the Cross, and that was sufficient.

Had it not been, He would not have said...it is finished.

Jesus's death , as His death and salvation.

No idea what you are trying to say here. Christ immediately proclaimed victory over sin and death:


1 Peter 3:18-19
King James Version (KJV)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


Ephesians 4:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

If He was not 100% God we are not saved, If He was not 100% man ,we are not saved

And that I agree with wholeheartedly.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Elohim, does not always describe God as God.

This is true. Nor is it the only term used to identify God. It might be similar to the term father, which is used of both God and man, yet it is the context which determines Who, or who is in view.

God is Elohim, and is also Elohim of Elohim.

Yet we keep in mind that there is but One God.

So we do not impose into the use of a term used of God an identical meaning when used of others.

Anything that is created is not a god.

Angels are "messenger" in GR.. but are elohyim, with a purpose,or job which is ministering to the saints. ,,little "g".... gods,,,

They are not "little g gods," lol.

They are servants.

More than natural man, or animals. but not GOD

Agreed.

This is common throughout the Bible

Nowhere in Scripture are Angels or men considered to be "little g gods."

Satan is called the god of this world, but that is limited to a context in which he has power over mankind. It does not make him anything more than what he is, which is a created being. A powerful created being, to be sure, but still a created being, and not the One God of the Bible. And in no way is he to be equated to God.


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

Boy you just go down swinging,

yes, Gen, Job, Psalms and Mark uses gods or sons of God. These are not being elevated to God, they are classed as elohyim.

Satan is elohyim and others are. but they were banished, disgraced condemned held in prison. HERE

 

[Darrell C]

Boy you just go down swinging,

I'm not the one going down, lol. My positions are verified in Scripture, yours are not.

yes, Gen, Job, Psalms and Mark uses gods or sons of God. These are not being elevated to God, they are classed as elohyim.

Which does not equate to them actually beings gods.

Satan is elohyim and others are. but they were banished, disgraced condemned held in prison. HERE

No, LoDebar...they are not held here.

Can you give me an address so I can go view them? That would be a great place to have a Prison Ministry.

The demons that are incarcerated are in a spiritual prison, not a physical prison. All accounts of demons interacting with men shows...they are not bound, they are free to effect their mischief.

Now present Scripture that teaches earth is a prison for demons. You have not been able to do so to date, yet you keep reiterating this same error.


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

I'm not the one going down, lol. My positions are verified in Scripture, yours are not.




Which does not equate to them actually beings gods.




No, LoDebar...they are not held here.

Can you give me an address so I can go view them? That would be a great place to have a Prison Ministry.

The demons that are incarcerated are in a spiritual prison, not a physical prison. All accounts of demons interacting with men shows...they are not bound, they are free to effect their mischief.

Now present Scripture that teaches earth is a prison for demons. You have not been able to do so to date, yet you keep reiterating this same error.


God bless.

Satan is here, Evil spirits are here,

 

[Darrell C]

Satan is here, Evil spirits are here,

I said that:

Third, Satan was not bound when he was cast out of Heaven, and is to this day walking about, to and fro upon the earth, as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

It seems to me that Satan fell, and took some other Angels with him. They were cast out of Heaven, but not incarcerated, because we still see demons at work in Christ's Day. So being incarcerated would likely have taken place after the Fall, though it is equally possible those Peter and Jude refer to fell prior to Creation. It doesn't really have any bearing on Satan and his demons, though, because we know they are yet free, roaming the earth.

No, LoDebar, this is specific to the Angels which kept not their first estate. It does not apply to Satan and all demons, because he and they are still active on this earth. He is called "the god of this world." He walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

I've already said that the demons in 2 Peter and Jude are not in Hell. I made the point they were in Tartarus. Satan is not in Tartarus, the demons in these two Epistles are. Satan walks the earth.

Yet you keep saying he is in prison.

The earth was not created a prison, and Hell is the only place we are told of that was created for Satan and his demons.

All accounts of demons interacting with men shows...they are not bound, they are free to effect their mischief.

Several times, in fact.

Now let me ask you something: what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

He declares it

Luk 4:17
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him

to sum

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[Darrell C]

He declares it

Luk 4:17
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him

to sum

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Very good.

Next question: did Christ preach the Gospel to men? And did men receive Eternal Redemption through that preaching?


God bless.

 

[loDebar]

He did, They did, Ask the thief who was crucified with Him, Jesus was to the Jews first, then the Gospel as spread to all.

 

[Darrell C]

Next question: did Christ preach the Gospel to men? And did men receive Eternal Redemption through that preaching?

He did, They did, Ask the thief who was crucified with Him, Jesus was to the Jews first, then the Gospel as spread to all.

They didn't:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


The Old Testament Saints were not made perfect in regards to remission of sins.

That was only a promise in the Old Testament:


Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 8:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


The Writer confirms that the Promise has been received by those who believe on Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


God bless.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 9:30 PM Pacific.

 

[loDebar]

They didn't:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


The Old Testament Saints were not made perfect in regards to remission of sins.

That was only a promise in the Old Testament:


Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 8:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


The Writer confirms that the Promise has been received by those who believe on Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


God bless.

who is they? you asked about Jesus

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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