OSAS does not survive the "Sola Scriptura test" in Matthew 18..etc

BobRyan answered this in post#2

Allow me to add:

Forgiveness of sin and salvation to me as an individual are not the same.
All SIN (total, capital letters, past and future) is forgiven.

Salvation is accepting.
1. I need salvation
2 I cannot save myself
3. Only Jesus can
4 Exercising Faith (supplied by God) that Jesus is sufficient, willing and able to save me

Forgiveness is a blanket pardon, Salvation is accepting that pardon.

 

Done only by lost sinners, see the Pharisees!

 

Thank you for your time and thoughtful input. I appreciate it. When you have a chance, I would like to here your thoughts on the other half of the chapter, particularly these passages:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. And, “But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.” But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Hebrews 10:26‭-‬27‭, ‬35‭-‬36‭, ‬38‭-‬39 NIV

 

That passage is describing the professors amonge Jews who said Jesus was messiah, but ran back to OT sacrifices and worship ewhen troubles hit, so showed were not really saved!

 

Hebrew 6 is not talking about turning away by professors, despite commentaries, nor deliberately sinning and loosing salvation. It presents that there is no need to review Salvation again, speaking to Christian Hebrews, because one cannot crucify Christ afresh ever time they sin. The writer wanted to discuss maturity as a Christian

 

Only have a few minutes so I will give you something to consider in regards to this chapter, which I did in an earlier post (POST 17, Page One):


Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


The reason there remains "no more sacrifice for sins" is pretty simple, if you are not indoctrinated into false doctrine...

...because they are rejecting the only thing that can save them.

In view are Hebrews, not Christians, and if you look at the text you will see that this is not contrasting good Christian/bad Christian...it is contrasting from among the Hebrew people those who rejected Moses' Law (the Covenant of Law) and those who reject, in order...

1. Jesus Christ, The Son of God;
2. His Sacrifice;
3. His Covenant;
4. The efforts of the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter, Who is the One Who convicts unbelievers of sin, righteousness, and judgment:


As mentioned earlier, most proof texts of the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) improperly identify those being warned as regenerate believers. Here, it is a contrast between those who reject the Covenant of Law, and those who reject the New Covenant, which throughout the Book the Writer tries to convince his brethren (Hebrew) they must turn to Christ, rather than remain under Law.

If we continue in the text, which as mentioned before, has to be understood throughout (which I why I exhort you to understand the first half of the Chapter) in light of all that he writes, so we cannot make this contradict what he has already said:


30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.


31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Who are the "People" in view? The same people in view in the original statement...Israel. In view is a judgment of God on the Hebrew people based on their response to His Word.



32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;


33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.


Again, spoken to Hebrews, and those associated with Christianity. The only thing we can say for sure is that they received illumination, which is what I was speaking of in regards to Hebrews 6:4-6. That is simply how men come to be saved, the Comforter ministers the Gospel to them, shows them the truth of the GOspel and the condition they lie in (lost and destined for Hell), and they respond. The response is not always saving faith. I myself was ministered to for well over a year, but probably closer to two.


34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.


35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.


36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.


37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.


38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.


39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Verses 38-39 show the warning: do not draw back unto perdition. Same warning is found in Hebrews 6, "Emulate those who have faith."

What he does is distinguish between "drawing back unto perdition," and...believing to the saving of the soul. Only one of the two is actually saved.

But, again, until you understand this...


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


...and see it for what it is, a clear statement of Eternal Security, you will have doubts about most of what you see in Hebrews, because we often look at our lives and wonder how God could save sinners like us. The fact is, it is because we could do nothing to save ourselves that He came to make Salvation a reality for us.

Again, just do me a favor, and spend some time in the first 14 verses of this chapter. And I almost gave you a hint, lol, but that would defeat the purpose. The statements made are pretty clear, and it is just a matter of keeping the context together.

And sorry, have to get going, so this has been rushed. And I didn't use the NIV, because I am not a fan of the newer one. The 1984 edition is not bad, but the newer one isn't so hot.


God bless.

 

His point is that when they turn back in a final turn to Judaism once again, they leave any profession of Christ, and are now showing true roots as being unsaved.

 

I totally agree, but this showing the point of understanding then rejection of the Gospel. I do not think it goes as far as professors of the gospel, in this verse.

 

Their turning away from Jesus and salvation shows that they were never part of Him to start.

 

Thank you. I will do some further research.

 

yes

 

When I said this I should have added how important it is. It means, All sin is paid for even for those who do not accept Him. It makes predestination is error. Instead of Limited Atonement, it is unclaimed atonement. rejected by millions and the Atonement is claimed by millions, It is not God only paid for partial sins.

Being totally accepted by God, the salvation of Jesus is sufficient. It also shows the how useless it is for those working for forgiveness when it is already completely paid , in total. Works add nothing, miss-works cannot detract from the finished work.

 

• John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
• 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
• 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Everlasting life is everlasting. If you could lose your faith it cannot be everlasting.

 

rather touchy,

You make several mistakes regarding the chapter, We are forgiven, as the servant, why are we not in the same attitude of forgiveness? Why was the servant angry at his debtor? Where was the spirit of forgiveness?

Mat 18:32
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35¶
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

As it is obvious, forgiving debts is not salvation, The servant did not have a correct heart to realize what the Master had done for him and only thought of himself. Salvation shows in a different attitude

 

list please.