Featured Pope Francis: "Hell Does Not Exist"

Your article quotes Francis this way --

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

This is where a lot of Catholics are going to raise the "heretic" word for "contemplation" and argue that Francis was not speaking "ex Cathedra" on doctrine.

John refers to fiery hell as the "Lake of Fire" and we see in Rev 14 and in Rev 20 that it includes the real life suffering and torment in real-life fire and brimstone where (as Christ states) God "destroys both body and soul" Matt 10:28 but not before first subjecting the lost to such 'torment and fire and brimstone" Rev 14 that He does not even count the first death as "death" at all in John 11.

 

This is what Paul calls "doctrines of demons". The "pope" is a heretic and teaching damnable theology, that is 100% against what the Holy Bible, the Word of God, the ultimate Authority on all things. Roman Catholicism is not Biblical in the majority of what it teaches.

 

I will first state that I believe pope Francis is on his way to a terrible eternity because he is ultimately a false teacher. Also because he is a super-apostle as someone who claims Vicar of Christ.

That said, the part of this that gets me is how bad his Christian apologetics is. He is trying to beautify the doctrine of hell instead of boldly sharing the truths of the Gospel in a profound, or wise, way. Another problem is he seems to be trying to make the Gospel reasonable from human standards, which is impossible according to the bible (1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:4-16, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20).

That the pope has a close friend who is an atheist also concerns me though in that he is saying we should effectively ignore the parts of the bible that tell us to be holy, set apart, and not be unequally yoked.

Then again, I should not expect good fruit from a false teacher (Matthew 7:17-18)

 

Oh.... You mean Hippy Frank! Catholism has come a long way since I was one. John the xxlll is rolling in his grave.

 

Vatican: Claim that pope denied hell's existence is unreliable

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Vatican said comments attributed to Pope Francis denying the existence of hell are a product of an Italian journalist's "reconstruction" of the pope's remarks and not a faithful transcript of the pope's real words.

Eugenio Scalfari, a co-founder and former editor of La Repubblica, an Italian daily, said Pope Francis -- with whom he has had several telephone conversations and face-to-face meetings -- invited him to his residence March 27.

During their conversation, Scalfari, 93, an avowed atheist, claims the pope said that while the souls of repentant sinners "receive the forgiveness of God and go among the line of souls who contemplate him, the souls of those who are unrepentant, and thus cannot be forgiven, disappear."

"Hell does not exist, the disappearance of sinful souls exists," Scalfari claims the pope said in the interview published March 29.

The Italian journalist has explained on more than one occasion that he does not take notes or record his conversations with the pope; he re-creates them afterward from memory, including the material he puts in quotation marks.

The Vatican issued a statement soon after the article was published, saying the pope did receive Scalfari "in a private meeting" to exchange Easter greetings, but he did not "give him an interview."

Regarding the alleged words of the pope, which were also published in a similar article written by the journalist in 2014, the Vatican said Scalfari's article "is a product of his own reconstruction in which the actual words pronounced by the pope are not cited."

"No quotes of the aforementioned article should therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the Holy Father's words," the Vatican said.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, "immediately after death, the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, 'eternal fire.'"

"The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs," the catechism says.

The alleged quotes ascribed to Pope Francis directly contradict the many public remarks he has made in homilies and speeches confirming the existence of hell.

Meeting a group of children and teens during a Rome parish visit March 8, 2015, a female Scout asked the pope, "If God forgives everybody, why does hell exist?"

The pope praised the question, saying it was "very important" as well as "a good and difficult question."

The pope assured the children that God is good but reminded them that there was also a "very proud angel, very proud, very intelligent, and he was envious of God. Do you understand? He was envious of God. He wanted God's place. And God wanted to forgive him, but he said, 'I don't need your forgiveness. I am good enough!'"

"This is hell: It is telling God, 'You take care of yourself because I'll take care of myself.' They don't send you to hell, you go there because you choose to be there. Hell is wanting to be distant from God because I do not want God's love. This is hell. Do you understand?"

On other occasions, the pope has described hell as the destination for those who choose to continue to sin and do evil.

Speaking to families of victims of the Mafia March 21, 2014, the pope made an appeal to all men and women in the Mafia to stop, turn their lives around and convert.

"Convert, there is still time for not ending up in hell. It is what is waiting for you if you continue on this path," the pope said.

 

you make the "pope" to be a Bible-believing evangelical!

 

I haven't "made" the Pope to be anything. I simply brought more information to this thread.

 

you wrote,

Speaking to families of victims of the Mafia March 21, 2014, the pope made an appeal to all men and women in the Mafia to stop, turn their lives around and convert.

"Convert, there is still time for not ending up in hell. It is what is waiting for you if you continue on this path," the pope said.

"convert" according to the RCC is NOT what the Bible says! You should have mentioned this

 

You have confused the article with something I wrote.

I actually wrote nothing in that post, I simply quoted the article. The dateline from the Vatican should have been your first clue.

 

I know that it is not what you actually wrote, but it is what you copied and pasted, but left it to sound like it is Biblical, without any comment from you. Not trying to argue the point, but simply say that imho you should have commented.

 

That's an interesting standard you want me to meet. We cannot post news stories without noting all areas where the views expressed deviate from our particular theological understanding without being assumed to fully embrace that viewpoint.

I certainly hope you are consistent in calling everyone else out by that standard.

I can't help but notice that you didn't call out "InTheLight" for his quotation of an article without commenting that he disagrees with Roman Catholicism and that "hell" (whatever you mean by it) is real.

So what's the real reason you are calling me out?

 

Shame on you for clouding a good narrative with information and facts. We don't like that sort of thing here.

 

my post #3 is referring to the OP

Though you are right I should have also commented on the OP in more detail

 

I've heard facsimiles of this many time and I can never agree. The torment of hell is the absence of God, not the flames and spewing sulfur? Throw someone into a lava flow and see if they scream about 2000 degree heat or whether they sing the Doxology.

 

How would you know a false teacher from your own rear end? Last week you were "devil worshiping" with miracles and tongues, Week before that and week after is always another tale how you left a bad faith for a better one.

If being Catholic is evil, Steve, I'd invite you to actually try it as to screw it up as you've done previous adventures.
Just don't convert to Catholic, we prefer a good Steve over a bad catholic.

Ever member of the catholic church is guaranteed to be alot meaner then God.

Matthew 5

. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

Tell us Steve


Mark 2

15And it happened that He was reclining at the table in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. 16When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?” 17And hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”


Steve you ever been in the spirit for Ice Cream? The Devil is attitude and spirit too, Call him the ACCUSER.

He pretends to be your friend by accusing others to "protect" you.




"the bible that tell us to be holy, set apart, and not be unequally yoked."

The moment I think I am holier then someone else is a indicator of when I am worst sinner.

 

Wow,

I do accept that I deserve to be called out for my rampant demon worshiping, called training to be a NAR leader. The problem I have with the Roman Catholic Church is complex it seems to me, and I will try to address it. I grandstanded, I understand that and am sorry I made you angry.

First,

Probably the thing that gets me is the lack of a total disconnect and wholehearted repentance of past sins. If you have read my earlier posts a few months ago, you will know that I am a major critic of churches and denominations that have bloody histories and have not fully repented of them on a wholehearted level. Now, back then I angered people by being angry, caustic, and factional; something I am very sorry for.

In the case of the RCC I am talking of a rampant series of persecutions, apathy to suffering, and terrible sins by senior leaders. Now perhaps the Roman Catholic Church is very, very regretful of these actions, and has aimed to address them. If so, I will retract this problem and say that the real issue is then that the Magisterium's apologies are just not public enough and candid enough.

Second,

The "style," for lack of a better word, of the RCC is so different from that of Jesus that it is striking all the time to me. I talk of golden vessels, great cathedrals, expensive relics that could be sold for the sake of the poor, fine clothing for church leaders, and other articles of worship. To give Jesus golden raiment and golden everything makes sense, given who he is. The real problem though is that we could spend so much lavishly on the poor in exchange for the luxury given to ceremonies of worship.

Third,

I must add all the normal biblical criticisms used by others who quote the bible against the RCC. To me, the RCC is typically in violation of believing that there is liberty for the believer on disputable matters. Also, 1 Timothy 4:1-5 strikes me and I misposted and will continue in another post.

 

Actually Utilyan, thinking about it I do believe I have finished my post. Those three criticisms strike me as the primary reasons I have rejected the RCC.

 

I must add one other primary problem with the RCC:

Fourth,

There is such weight given to Christian tradition, reason, and experience theologically in the RCC. I am firmly convinced by the bible that the Gospel is unreasonable, that tradition is dangerous to act on equally or even close to equally with scripture, and that our experiences lie to us and we must in the end go with the bible's teachings against all sight.

I am afraid these views would make me a lunatic to many in the RCC.

-EDIT-

Fifth,

I was already on my RCC adventure in seminary. I was a good Anglican or Greek Orthodox theologically. I was all into the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" I knew Mary was "Theotokos" and so much more.

I even went to an RCC church to discuss ecumenism, and all they wanted was to try and convert me from Liberal Baptist.

I even attended an RCC church and small group off and on. The small group was nice, but not terribly biblical in a literalist way I would say. The church services were interesting but I didn't mesh well with trying to capture the history of the RCC without formal training in church history. I did gain such training at seminary though and started to enjoy service. Al;though, I can't stand how little scripture makes it into the average homily.

However, what always got me was communion. I was not a full member of the RCC and was denied communion every time I went to church. To commune in the RCC I would have to prove I was a Roman Catholic to the core. I went up every Sunday or other days, I did attend the occasional weekday services, and it was galling since I had to simply make the sign of one unable to commune and accept a blessing.

These experiences grew so terrible that I stopped going to RCC churches, finally I became a conservative Christian and biblical literalist when I got out of being lukewarm in the faith two years ago. I have never looked back at the high churches, especially after reading the bible with new eyes as a literalist who did not rely on Church Tradition.

Wow, I am ever full of surprises, I guess this means I am a deconverted Anglican who wanted to be in full communion with the RCC. Yeah I remember now, I was considering going for Anglican prelate in the hope of getting married and defecting to the RCC a married priest.

 

Stephen: I do want to address your second objection to Catholicism and as I find it most interesting that with as much exposure you have had to the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church you would raise such an issue.

In Matthew 26:6 we read,

'A woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? For the ointment might have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."

Likewise, many of the great cathedrals of Europe were built with donations and labor from the poor, who wanted to build such monuments to God’s goodness and sovereignty. The Vatican does not control enormous liquid wealth, and its annual operating budget has been compared to that of a large archdiocese such as that of Chicago. The vestments? Many inexpensive vestments are available for clergy and most often they are bought at their own expense. I remember wondering which were more costly, the 3 piece suits my Baptist pastor wore on Sundays or the vestments we often see in liturgical churches. As to the 'golden vessels', they are often brass with gold overlay and not nearly as expensive as you might think. If you compare the communion ware that most evangelical churches use you would be in for big surprise.

In spite of this, the Catholic Church is still one of the most giving institutions on earth, running and supporting countless charities, relief organizations, hospitals, and similar enterprises at great cost to the Church.

And, yes, you are full of surprises!! I hope you eventually find spiritual peace. I have, and it has been since I left my Baptist church to become a Catholic Christian.