Pope Francis: "Hell Does Not Exist"

[Steven Yeadon]

Stephen: I do want to address your second objection to Catholicism and as I find it most interesting that with as much exposure you have had to the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church you would raise such an issue.

In Matthew 26:6 we read,

'A woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? For the ointment might have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me."

Likewise, many of the great cathedrals of Europe were built with donations and labor from the poor, who wanted to build such monuments to God’s goodness and sovereignty. The Vatican does not control enormous liquid wealth, and its annual operating budget has been compared to that of a large archdiocese such as that of Chicago. The vestments? Many inexpensive vestments are available for clergy and most often they are bought at their own expense. I remember wondering which were more costly, the 3 piece suits my Baptist pastor wore on Sundays or the vestments we often see in liturgical churches. As to the 'golden vessels', they are often brass with gold overlay and not nearly as expensive as you might think. If you compare the communion ware that most evangelical churches use you would be in for big surprise.

In spite of this, the Catholic Church is still one of the most giving institutions on earth, running and supporting countless charities, relief organizations, hospitals, and similar enterprises at great cost to the Church.

To me, the problem is a historical one more than a modern one.

I do accept that in modern context Protestant churches and RCC churches probably have about the same budgets. The thing is this is historically very different. The RCC was a fabulously wealthy institution for much of its history, given the cost of just colored fabric and gold overlay back in the day. This amazing wealth was spent on ostentatious projects for Jesus and the Church when Paul and the apostles made it their ambition to give richly to the poor. The Church after Jesus ascends to heaven is one that preaches the Gospel and is richly generous, even in poverty. I cannot imagine Paul dressing like a Roman Catholic priest back in Rome. He would find some far better use for such funds by dedicating it to missions or giving it to the poor.

That said, I agree with you that the RCC now sits on an empire that is roughly equally funded per-capita to Protestants globally and that it owns historical artifacts that should be preserved. That said, I find it odd that the RCC is not selling its massive numbers of relics across the world to museums. For instance, If the RCC were to loan out such artifacts each year for a steep price, there would be continuous income for the poor and increased interest in the RCC.

 

[utilyan]

I must add one other primary problem with the RCC:

Fourth,

There is such weight given to Christian tradition, reason, and experience theologically in the RCC. I am firmly convinced by the bible that the Gospel is unreasonable, that tradition is dangerous to act on equally or even close to equally with scripture, and that our experiences lie to us and we must in the end go with the bible's teachings against all sight.

I am afraid these views would make me a lunatic to many in the RCC.

-EDIT-

Fifth,

I was already on my RCC adventure in seminary. I was a good Anglican or Greek Orthodox theologically. I was all into the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" I knew Mary was "Theotokos" and so much more.

I even went to an RCC church to discuss ecumenism, and all they wanted was to try and convert me from Liberal Baptist.

I even attended an RCC church and small group off and on. The small group was nice, but not terribly biblical in a literalist way I would say. The church services were interesting but I didn't mesh well with trying to capture the history of the RCC without formal training in church history. I did gain such training at seminary though and started to enjoy service. Al;though, I can't stand how little scripture makes it into the average homily.

However, what always got me was communion. I was not a full member of the RCC and was denied communion every time I went to church. To commune in the RCC I would have to prove I was a Roman Catholic to the core. I went up every Sunday or other days, I did attend the occasional weekday services, and it was galling since I had to simply make the sign of one unable to commune and accept a blessing.

These experiences grew so terrible that I stopped going to RCC churches, finally I became a conservative Christian and biblical literalist when I got out of being lukewarm in the faith two years ago. I have never looked back at the high churches, especially after reading the bible with new eyes as a literalist who did not rely on Church Tradition.

Wow, I am ever full of surprises, I guess this means I am a deconverted Anglican who wanted to be in full communion with the RCC. Yeah I remember now, I was considering going for Anglican prelate in the hope of getting married and defecting to the RCC a married priest.

“Just going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.” --GK Chesterton

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”--GK Chesterton

These two quotes above are the first points I want to make.

I'm not looking for you to convert to Catholic, Steve as I stated before, I rather you just be a good Steve. What troubles me is your attitude towards atheists for example and your right to judge Pope Francis. I watch your journey and sometimes I cringe at how you are easily impressed by power or sometimes you hop over to faiths who like to step on others.

I'm thinking to myself how could you point fingers start accusing and blaming folks when a minute ago you were doing stuff you would call the folks devil worshipers.


Let me present a challenge for you. To prove to you a reliance on God.

Accusation. Blaming. Faultfinding. Criticism. The Devil is called Accuser for a good reason. Its the roots of combativeness, violence, mistrust. He's the prosecutor lawyer in your mind. Every single bad thing in your life is signed off by him. You expect the day to go bad because the devil signed off on accusation that God has more important things to do. Your going to have a tough day, because the devil signed off on an accusation that Life is about you getting beat up.

The Devil believes accusation blaming and fault finding are absolute necessary virtues to maintain in your life.


My challenge is, Drop it for a day. Don't blame, accuse, find fault or criticize anyone or anything.

Rather then you protect yourself for the day, Let God have the Job. In other words you are not allowed to worry, cause when you worry your accusing God of not being a solution. Drop the guard and let God have the guard duty.

You should not even expect suffering. To expect suffering is also accusing God of a tough day,..... so if you do suffer in anyway you should be quite surprised.

See I'm targeting your sins on the "atomic" level, they've gone on for so long, they are taken for granted.
The best weapon of evil is like worst then a stealth bomber he's the accuser who already convinced you he's your friend.

This also gives you a good idea where I am at, what my battlefield and struggle towards faith In God is like.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

“Just going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.” --GK Chesterton

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”--GK Chesterton

These two quotes above are the first points I want to make.

I'm not looking for you to convert to Catholic, Steve as I stated before, I rather you just be a good Steve. What troubles me is your attitude towards atheists for example and your right to judge Pope Francis. I watch your journey and sometimes I cringe at how you are easily impressed by power or sometimes you hop over to faiths who like to step on others.

I'm thinking to myself how could you point fingers start accusing and blaming folks when a minute ago you were doing stuff you would call the folks devil worshipers.


Let me present a challenge for you. To prove to you a reliance on God.

Accusation. Blaming. Faultfinding. Criticism. The Devil is called Accuser for a good reason. Its the roots of combativeness, violence, mistrust. He's the prosecutor lawyer in your mind. Every single bad thing in your life is signed off by him. You expect the day to go bad because the devil signed off on accusation that God has more important things to do. Your going to have a tough day, because the devil signed off on an accusation that Life is about you getting beat up.

The Devil believes accusation blaming and fault finding are absolute necessary virtues to maintain in your life.


My challenge is, Drop it for a day. Don't blame, accuse, find fault or criticize anyone or anything.

Rather then you protect yourself for the day, Let God have the Job. In other words you are not allowed to worry, cause when you worry your accusing God of not being a solution. Drop the guard and let God have the guard duty.

You should not even expect suffering. To expect suffering is also accusing God of a tough day,..... so if you do suffer in anyway you should be quite surprised.

See I'm targeting your sins on the "atomic" level, they've gone on for so long, they are taken for granted.
The best weapon of evil is like worst then a stealth bomber he's the accuser who already convinced you he's your friend.

This also gives you a good idea where I am at, what my battlefield and struggle towards faith In God is like.

Thank you Utilyan.

My problem is that I have been taken in by many terrible deceptions over the course of my life. It is quite common in my history, especially when I was less medicated and suffering bipolar and schizophrenia. I have made it into a science at this point of how to deconvert from a position and turn entirely on those who last week were my allies. I simply used a strong muscle in the last two weeks that most people couldn't comprehend having at all.

I understand now that I am a guard dog on doctrine. Even though I am not a teacher. I will have to ruminate on this fact and get back with you.

 

[Adonia]

Vatican: Claim that pope denied hell's existence is unreliable

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Vatican said comments attributed to Pope Francis denying the existence of hell are a product of an Italian journalist's "reconstruction" of the pope's remarks and not a faithful transcript of the pope's real words.

Eugenio Scalfari, a co-founder and former editor of La Repubblica, an Italian daily, said Pope Francis -- with whom he has had several telephone conversations and face-to-face meetings -- invited him to his residence March 27.

During their conversation, Scalfari, 93, an avowed atheist, claims the pope said that while the souls of repentant sinners "receive the forgiveness of God and go among the line of souls who contemplate him, the souls of those who are unrepentant, and thus cannot be forgiven, disappear."

"Hell does not exist, the disappearance of sinful souls exists," Scalfari claims the pope said in the interview published March 29.

The Italian journalist has explained on more than one occasion that he does not take notes or record his conversations with the pope; he re-creates them afterward from memory, including the material he puts in quotation marks.

The Vatican issued a statement soon after the article was published, saying the pope did receive Scalfari "in a private meeting" to exchange Easter greetings, but he did not "give him an interview."

Regarding the alleged words of the pope, which were also published in a similar article written by the journalist in 2014, the Vatican said Scalfari's article "is a product of his own reconstruction in which the actual words pronounced by the pope are not cited."

"No quotes of the aforementioned article should therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the Holy Father's words," the Vatican said.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, "immediately after death, the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, 'eternal fire.'"

"The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs," the catechism says.

The alleged quotes ascribed to Pope Francis directly contradict the many public remarks he has made in homilies and speeches confirming the existence of hell.

Meeting a group of children and teens during a Rome parish visit March 8, 2015, a female Scout asked the pope, "If God forgives everybody, why does hell exist?"

The pope praised the question, saying it was "very important" as well as "a good and difficult question."

The pope assured the children that God is good but reminded them that there was also a "very proud angel, very proud, very intelligent, and he was envious of God. Do you understand? He was envious of God. He wanted God's place. And God wanted to forgive him, but he said, 'I don't need your forgiveness. I am good enough!'"

"This is hell: It is telling God, 'You take care of yourself because I'll take care of myself.' They don't send you to hell, you go there because you choose to be there. Hell is wanting to be distant from God because I do not want God's love. This is hell. Do you understand?"

On other occasions, the pope has described hell as the destination for those who choose to continue to sin and do evil.

Speaking to families of victims of the Mafia March 21, 2014, the pope made an appeal to all men and women in the Mafia to stop, turn their lives around and convert.

"Convert, there is still time for not ending up in hell. It is what is waiting for you if you continue on this path," the pope said.

Thank you for quoting all of that. As a Catholic myself I am not a fan of him, but many are quick to jump on him any chance they get. So in the end we see that there is indeed a hell and Pope Francis believes in it. Is it the firey furnace run by a red being with horns on his head as depicted many times over or perhaps something a bit different?

 

[Reynolds]

This is what you get when a sinner is declared "infallible".

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfri says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Is the R.C. church going to refund the purgatory payments?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I must add one other primary problem with the RCC:

Fourth,

There is such weight given to Christian tradition, reason, and experience theologically in the RCC. I am firmly convinced by the bible that the Gospel is unreasonable, that tradition is dangerous to act on equally or even close to equally with scripture, and that our experiences lie to us and we must in the end go with the bible's teachings against all sight.

I am afraid these views would make me a lunatic to many in the RCC.

-EDIT-

Fifth,

I was already on my RCC adventure in seminary. I was a good Anglican or Greek Orthodox theologically. I was all into the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" I knew Mary was "Theotokos" and so much more.

I even went to an RCC church to discuss ecumenism, and all they wanted was to try and convert me from Liberal Baptist.

I even attended an RCC church and small group off and on. The small group was nice, but not terribly biblical in a literalist way I would say. The church services were interesting but I didn't mesh well with trying to capture the history of the RCC without formal training in church history. I did gain such training at seminary though and started to enjoy service. Al;though, I can't stand how little scripture makes it into the average homily.

However, what always got me was communion. I was not a full member of the RCC and was denied communion every time I went to church. To commune in the RCC I would have to prove I was a Roman Catholic to the core. I went up every Sunday or other days, I did attend the occasional weekday services, and it was galling since I had to simply make the sign of one unable to commune and accept a blessing.

These experiences grew so terrible that I stopped going to RCC churches, finally I became a conservative Christian and biblical literalist when I got out of being lukewarm in the faith two years ago. I have never looked back at the high churches, especially after reading the bible with new eyes as a literalist who did not rely on Church Tradition.

Wow, I am ever full of surprises, I guess this means I am a deconverted Anglican who wanted to be in full communion with the RCC. Yeah I remember now, I was considering going for Anglican prelate in the hope of getting married and defecting to the RCC a married priest.

Can you explain what you mean by, "I am firmly convinced by the bible that the Gospel is unreasonable"?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Is the R.C. church going to refund the purgatory payments?

Ahhh, no they are not. You have to first disavow it first.

 

[tyndale1946]

Oh.... You mean Hippy Frank! Catholism has come a long way since I was one. John the xxlll is rolling in his grave.

Well I'm not Catholic but you think as wise as he is he surely would have read The Divine Comedy better know as Dante's Inferno... Oh that's right he's not Italian!... Nevermind!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thank you Utilyan.

My problem is that I have been taken in by many terrible deceptions over the course of my life. It is quite common in my history, especially when I was less medicated and suffering bipolar and schizophrenia. I have made it into a science at this point of how to deconvert from a position and turn entirely on those who last week were my allies. I simply used a strong muscle in the last two weeks that most people couldn't comprehend having at all.

I understand now that I am a guard dog on doctrine. Even though I am not a teacher. I will have to ruminate on this fact and get back with you.

Steve, I would challenge you to forget the RCC, Forget the Anglicans, indeed forget denomination religion altogether. Go back to the fundamentals, go back to the roots of your faith... that’s what I did and I am much happier.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well I'm not Catholic but you think as wise as he is he surely would have read The Divine Comedy better know as Dante's Inferno... Oh that's right he's not Italian!... Nevermind!... Brother Glen

All his ancestors were Italian

 

[HankD]

Is the R.C. church going to refund the purgatory payments?

No! purgatory is not to keep one out of hell but a place of purification before one enters heaven.

Get with the program!

 

[Adonia]

This is what Paul calls "doctrines of demons". The "pope" is a heretic and teaching damnable theology, that is 100% against what the Holy Bible, the Word of God, the ultimate Authority on all things. Roman Catholicism is not Biblical in the majority of what it teaches.

Let's not talk of "doctrines of demons" shall we? Other than actually believing in the Trinity, non-orthodox believing Christian sects have gotten just about everything wrong.

 

[utilyan]

This is what Paul calls "doctrines of demons". The "pope" is a heretic and teaching damnable theology, that is 100% against what the Holy Bible, the Word of God, the ultimate Authority on all things. Roman Catholicism is not Biblical in the majority of what it teaches.

Show me that bible verse, The bible is the ultimate authority on all things.

Or are you just a LIAR?

The teaching that a sinner is justified before God solely on the basis of their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is not the complete Gospel on salvation, as the other important factor has been omitted, - REPENTANCE

The first words of the Lord Jesus Christ in Mark's Gospel, are, "REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15)

Again, in Luke chapter 13, the words of the Lord Jesus Christ;

"but unless you REPENT, you will all likewise perish" (verses 3, 5)

At the end of His Ministry in Luke chapter 25, we read the words of Jesus;

"and that REPENTANCE for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (47)

The very first sermon preached in the early Church, as recorded in Acts chapter 2, we read of Peter's response to those who had been convicted by the Gospel Message, "“Brothers, what shall we do?” (v.37), to which Peter said, “REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (38)

And, in the next chapter, the Disciples again say;

"REPENT therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out" (3:19)

To say that a sinner is "Justified" on the basis of faith ALONE, cannot be Biblically correct, as REPENTANCE, is as much as a precondition to a sinner being saved, than FAITH is. It is NOT something that follows conversion, as some teach, which is plainly wrong from the Word of God.

"The teaching that a sinner is justified before God solely on the basis of their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is not the complete Gospel on salvation, as the other important factor has been omitted, - REPENTANCE" --saved-by-grace

BTW great job figuring out today what we known for 2000 years. Maybe we can save you another 2000 years.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Can you explain what you mean by, "I am firmly convinced by the bible that the Gospel is unreasonable"?

Yes, reason is incapable of getting us to the Gospel and accepting it. Faith, evidence of things we do not see (Hebrews 11:1), does. For evidence I will offer the following scriptures (1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:4-16, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20).

Billy Graham has a good article here:

The Foolishness of the Gospel

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Steve, I would challenge you to forget the RCC, Forget the Anglicans, indeed forget denomination religion altogether. Go back to the fundamentals, go back to the roots of your faith... that’s what I did and I am much happier.

I like this advice, For the last year. I mainly go into denominational territory to argue how unbiblical everyone is but conservative Baptist churches. I think its time I stopped being a theological guard dog and just relaxed to take care of myself and those around me.

 

[Felipe Rios]

This is what you get when a sinner is declared "infallible".

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfri says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

WOW

 

[Yeshua1]

This is what you get when a sinner is declared "infallible".

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfri says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Well, at least John Stott has someone else who believes the wrong way with him on this issue!

 

[Gold Dragon]

Pope Francis reportedly denies the existence of hell. Vatican panics.

The question of whether Francis did indeed imply there is no hell is, therefore, subordinate to a bigger question: Why does Francis repeatedly engage in interviews with Scalfari, only to later say Scalfari misquotes his words? Catholic columnist Ross Douthat, whose To Change the Church: Pope Francis and the Future of Catholicism came out this week, interprets Francis’s friendship with Scalfari as a kind of “back door” form of information dissemination. By speaking to Scalfari, Douthat notes, Francis can explore (and, to an extent, “leak” to the public) unorthodox theological ideas while maintaining a veneer of plausible deniability.

“Francis,” Douthat writes, “[sees] an advantage in this sort of deliberately unreliable communication — whether as a form of freewheeling dialogue with a nonbeliever, a means to communicate very informally to supporters, or simply a way to talk casually without the strictures that an actual interview transcript would impose.”

Douthat seems to suggest francis uses Scalfari the way Trump uses twitter, to think out loud and start discussions of unorthodox ideas popular with his base in an informal way and allow him to walk back the position later. While I'm not sure Trump actually plans his tweets that way, I wouldn't be surprised if Francis does.

 

[carpro]

Evidently, the Pope needs to choose his "friends" more carefully...or he is actually the apostate many make him out to be. Take your pick.

 

[church mouse guy]

This is what you get when a sinner is declared "infallible".

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfri says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Unfortunately the quotation is hearsay and the Pope is not infallible except in official ex cathedra statements.