Featured Billy Graham on How to Become a Christian

No it isn't, it is popular pulpit mythology, because your doctrine teaches men were eternally redeemed and reconciled to God in the Old Testament, and I have presented the Bible on that issue. So until you start dealing with the Scripture and the points being given you, all you have is your mythology.

You have twice told me you would explain things to me, yet you have not, and will not, because you cannot.

It is just basic that men were in need of redemption when Christ came, that only He could and can bestow eternal life, and that it was through Christ that God began reconciling men unto Himself through.

There was no Church in the Old Testament, because no-one was being baptized into Christ and made one with Him.

Go get your Bible, shake off the dust, and explain my error.

And never, never, anywhere in what I have said can you quote me saying "the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer," though that is true. You do understand God is One, right?

Or do you so separate the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost that to think of the Spirit baptizing men into Christ is...error.

Again:

John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Perhaps because I have One God, and you have three?




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Hmm, I think I have been Scholarized. lol

The sad thing is that you argue something I have never said.

What is false?

Yours truly, of course.

Why else would you come into this thread and begin arguing something not even relevant to what I have said (at least you are consistent) and being hurling insults?

I have never said the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament.

I have never said the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament.

I have never said the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament.

Condescending. Hilarious, but condescending.

Again, irrelevant to anything I have said.

But that's okay, I'm still hoping you'll stumble across the water bowl at some point.




God bless.

 

So why are you teaching it?

The better question is why are you bearing false witness?

Quote me saying this. If it is found in one of my posts show me, it wouldn't be the first time I have made an error. But I doubt it can be found.


God bless.

 

Again? The "again" here is you quoting me saying what you are charging me with.

You will not because you cannot. Even if you could find a misstatement it would stand out against the consistency of the doctrine I present on a regular basis.

The only false teaching here is yours. You are bearing false witness. I guess this is your only recourse.

How would you know?

So show me where I said the Spirit was baptizing men in Christ, lol.

This is absurd.


God bless.

 

First, show me where the Church is Baptized with the Holy Ghost collectively.

And I will show you Acts 10-11 where we see an individual and his household Baptized with the Holy Ghost and he is said to be saved, and to have received the Gift of God, and to have been granted repentance unto life.

Oh, that's right...I already gave you that.

No point in wasting space and giving you the Word of God to ignore again.

Sorry, but I reject your charismatic tendencies and irresponsible handling of the Word of God:


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


And the points you, and everyone who has tried to deny these simple truths ignore are...

1. Both Jew and Gentile are taught by Peter here to have received repentance unto life;

2. The Baptism with the Holy Ghost is the moment of salvation;

3. The "beginning" can be marked as "not many days hence" from Christ's Ascension;

4. The Disciples themselves received repentance unto life at Pentecost;

5. The Disciples themselves were Baptized with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost;

6. The Disciples themselves received the Gift of God at Pentecost;

7. The Disciples themselves were saved at Pentecost, which when we balance Scripture we know this is Eternal Salvation distinguished from the salvation they had from an eternal perspective, meaning they (and Old Testament Saints) were saved from God's perspective, but still in need of the Work of Christ.


When you can take this discussion seriously let me know. You cannot argue these simple truths, and creating false arguments so you have something to speak on only wastes space in this thread.


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It's ironic that you would post a passage which speaks of something you deny.

This is your proof text for your charismatic doctrine?

The only question I will ask at this time is...

...are you seriously denying that the Ministry of the Comforter is an eternal indwelling compared to the filling of the Spirit in the Old Testament?

Now that I think about it, based on some of your earlier statements, I am led to guess you are a Bible-Believing Baptist?

I take it back, here's another simple question for you to ignore:

Do you see that the Spirit being sent is going to Minister in a way He did not before?

The Spirit of God has always empowered men for ministry, and worked in their hearts, but, we can distinguish between His (the Comforter's) coming and His ministry in the Old Testament. Here is a passage already given:


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Better check your MacArthur Study Bible. There is a difference, and it is surprising you are unaware of this.

So you are saying that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is simply an empowering, do I have that right?


God bless.

 

Where is the quote?

I'll ask again:

How would you know? You can't even answer simple questions and you presume to give me advice? lol

What have you brought to the table now, one verse?

You have quite a bit of Scripture and numerous points to get busy on.

Just tying up the thread until it closes, right? lol

This is what I have found, and to be fair, you did finally answer after being asked numerous times, in a post I have not yet gotten to.

So let's look at your answer:

You should have asked yourself the question before you answered.

Old Testament Saints did not have the same relationship with God that New Testament Saints have.

You first have to "possibly" make an exception to the "permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit," which is amazing, seeing that the permanent indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost was most certainly not taking place in the Old Testament, that is just basic, at least for most Baptists.

Your reiteration of the heresy that they were redeemed by the blood (death) of the Lamb is given without the first Scripture reference, though of course you can only offer one verse out of context as a proof text.

So I invite you to address the Word of God which teaches that the Old Testament Saints were not redeemed by the blood of Christ until Christ died for them:


Romans 3:21-26
King James Version (KJV)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.



Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


I'll just start with two verses.

Reconcile what Scripture actually teaches to your popular pulpit mythology. You have promised twice you would do that.


God bless.

 

I am 100% right, the Church did not begin until men began to be Baptized with the Holy Ghost, which is synonymous with being baptized into Christ, because it speaks of the immersion of the believer into Christ.


Romans 8:1
King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The point you are dodging is that no man was in Christ prior to Pentecost, because it was not until after He would leave that this would begin:


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


In view is the Eternal Indwelling of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This will be fulfilled when the Comforter comes:


John 14:24-26
King James Version (KJV)

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Here's the simple question for this one:

Are you trying to say Christ is speaking about two different Spirits coming? Are you denying that He is speaking of the same event?


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On the contrary, if one is not baptized into Christ they are not Christians:


1 Corinthians 12:13
King James Version (KJV)

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.


13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


14 For the body is not one member, but many.


I guess right now I am the foot. Care to guess which part you are playing?




Continued...

 

Ephesians 4
King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Well, your charismatic brethren agree with you, I do not.

The only Baptism that is relevant to salvation and the indwelling of God (v.6) is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Again you bear false witness. I have asked you several times to quote me saying the Spirit baptizes. It is true, of course, because God is One, but, I have consistently taught that Christ is the Baptizer on this Forum for years.

As far as "The Baptism of the Holy Ghost" being erroneous terminology, would you also think, if I spoke of the Baptism of Fire..."

...that I was implying that fire baptizes people?


Continued...

 

I don't have to understand that, for God is One.

We see the Spirit of God made synonymous with the Spirit of Christ here:

Romans 8:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


And here...


Acts 20:28
King James Version (KJV)

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

And here...


John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Again I ask you, know you not that God is One?


Continued...

 

I agree.

You have been arguing with yourself. Like I asked before, "create false arguments much?"

And in view is the immersion of the believer in eternal union with God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

If you want to deny that, okay, but at least address what I say, instead of your false arguments.

Correct, the Lord would, at a future time...Baptize the Disciples with the Holy Ghost:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


The disciples were not yet immersed in eternal union with God, because, TCassidy, they had not yet been reconciled to God, because they had not yet been redeemed from their sin:


2 Corinthians 5:17-19
King James Version (KJV)

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


John 14 is clear enough, that the Disciples were not in Christ during His teaching them about the coming Comforter.

Why do you reject that? It should make you rejoice to finally know the magnitude of what Christ did for man.


Continued...