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Salvation by any other name.....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Apr 19, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    neither, They did not know Jesus as the Messiah, Some knew and expected a Messiah to come, but the Jews still do today, it is not enough.

    let me expand, We consider the the OT "angel of the Lord " might be Jesus in several verses.

    We know that Jesus did not become the Son of God until He became the son of man.

    "Progressive Revelation" of God's purpose
    .
     
    #21 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  2. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but the hope of a Messiah is not the same as knowing Jesus as Messiah. Jesus had to complete he information and did so for these OT saints . They could not know of nor believe on Jesus before their death.

    The modern Jews still hope for a Messiah. The OT Jews who hoped for a Messiah could have heard from Jesus in Paradise
     
    #22 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God did not reveal to OT the name of the coming Messiah, but they sure knew that he would come to save them, as He was seen in ll of the OT types/feastsPassover etc!
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Apr 19, 2018
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    They did not know Jehovah is Salvation? Why not? All the OT Prophets preached Him.
     
    #24 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rahab knew all this ? Abel ? Sara? no, all were before the Law . Yet they are in the Faith chapter.

    Wont fit all who were "accounted for righteousness"
     
    #25 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God did not reveal the Name "Jehovah is Salvation?" If God did not reveal it, who did? Are you saying God did not inspire those portions of the OT?
     
    #26 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ALL scriptures are inspired by God, its just that the OT did not have fully disclosed to them all that was to come, doctrine of progressive revelation.
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Apr 19, 2018
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Did Rahab know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

    Did Abel know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

    Did Sara know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

    I am not sure why you continue to deny the clear teachings of scripture. :(
     
    #28 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The Rabbi's today look for the same .

    There has to be more. They did not know Jesus or that He would die, Look at the attitudes of the disciples, they did not know.

    Those who were righteousness and were made aware of the Gospel from Jesus directly were saved
     
    #29 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again you have to pay attention and read with understanding. Nobody has said that they had the complete full disclosure we have in the NT. What they bible says is that the OT saints knew the Savior, Jehovah is Salvation.
     
    #30 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  11. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Knowing Jehovah is not salvation, The devils believe God and are not saved

    Jas 2:19

    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
     
    #31 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rom 10:9

    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    It is specific,
     
    #32 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No they don't. They rejected Jesus as the Christ, Jehovah is Salvation as the Messiah.

    More than Jesus?

    Yes, they did. Genesis 3:15.

    They were just like you. They knew what the OT said, but didn't believe it was true.
     
    #33 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So knowing (in the bible sense) Jehovah is Salvation - Jesus is Salvation - does not save. If Jesus does not save, who do you think does?

    Yes, they are not saved. Nor can they be. They are in open rebellion against Jehovah is Savation.

    Yes, salvation is when we confess, IE believe, that Jehovah is Salvation (Jesus is the Messiah).
     
    #34 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They knew that he was coming, but I do not know if they all knew that he was to be God in the flesh, as jewish thought was a godly man anointed by the Holy Spirit as David had been!
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Apr 19, 2018
  16. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Note: There is no verse that says they cant be saved. This is man's humanistic bias .


    You cannot just rely on believing that there is a God and that that God is Jehovah. Repentance of sin and belief that Jesus is the only way of Salvation. Not belief in somebody else or a Messiah that will be revealed but the specific finished work of Jesus. This show that you are guilty , cant saved yourself, that you need saving and there is only one that is capable and willing to save,

    Knowing God does not change and does not show favoritism the OT saints have to had believed on Jesus, same as me and this could only occur in Paradise between crucifixion and resurrection .
     
    #36 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What part of Yahwah - YHWH - The Great I Am, the Great Self Existent One, The Uncaused First Cause, Yahwah is Salvation, Yahwah is Messiah, don't you understand?
     
    #37 TCassidy, Apr 19, 2018
  18. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Looking for a Messiah , as the Rabbi's do now is the same as the OT Jews did, we both agree without Jesus they are not saved
     
    #38 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You are conditioning salvation on knowledge and not grace. How about infants who die never hearing the gospel we hear today?
     
    #39 1689Dave, Apr 19, 2018
  20. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    God provides salvation. (to His glory) the only access to God is through Jesus and the only way to Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
     
    #40 loDebar, Apr 19, 2018
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