Salvation by any other name.....

[loDebar]

First you said,
Then you said, when asked "Who is Yahwah" you said:

And now you say:
So, if Yahwah is the LORD of the OT, and you admit Yahwah is "The Godhead, all three" but now you are saying that the OT saints did not have knowledge of Jesus, the Second Person of the Godhead which you just said they did know as the LORD of the OT, have you changed your mind again, or do you now deny that Jesus is part of the Godhead? Are you now denying the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ?

neither, They did not know Jesus as the Messiah, Some knew and expected a Messiah to come, but the Jews still do today, it is not enough.

let me expand, We consider the the OT "angel of the Lord " might be Jesus in several verses.

We know that Jesus did not become the Son of God until He became the son of man.

"Progressive Revelation" of God's purpose
.

 

[loDebar]

ALL who have even been saved was on the basis of the death/resurrection of Jesus Christ on their behalf, as their sin bearer/substitute, and the OT believers had hope in the promised coming Messiah, while we have hope in eh Messiah who has already come.
The fullness of salvation, though, such as indwelling by the Holy spirit all persons, having direct access to God, were to await the new Covenant itself.

I agree, but the hope of a Messiah is not the same as knowing Jesus as Messiah. Jesus had to complete he information and did so for these OT saints . They could not know of nor believe on Jesus before their death.

The modern Jews still hope for a Messiah. The OT Jews who hoped for a Messiah could have heard from Jesus in Paradise

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree, but the hope of a Messiah is not the same as knowing Jesus as Messiah. Jesus had to complete he information and did so for these OT saints . They could not know of nor believe on Jesus before their death.

The modern Jews still hope for a Messiah. The OT Jews who hoped for a Messiah could have heard from Jesus in Paradise

God did not reveal to OT the name of the coming Messiah, but they sure knew that he would come to save them, as He was seen in ll of the OT types/feastsPassover etc!

 

[TCassidy]

They did not know Jesus as the Messiah,

They did not know Jehovah is Salvation? Why not? All the OT Prophets preached Him.

 

[loDebar]

Rahab knew all this ? Abel ? Sara? no, all were before the Law . Yet they are in the Faith chapter.

Wont fit all who were "accounted for righteousness"

 

[TCassidy]

God did not reveal to OT the name of the coming Messiah

God did not reveal the Name "Jehovah is Salvation?" If God did not reveal it, who did? Are you saying God did not inspire those portions of the OT?

 

[Yeshua1]

God did not reveal the Name "Jehovah is Salvation?" If God did not reveal it, who did? Are you saying God did not inspire those portions of the OT?

ALL scriptures are inspired by God, its just that the OT did not have fully disclosed to them all that was to come, doctrine of progressive revelation.

 

[TCassidy]

Rahab knew all this ?

Did Rahab know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

Abel ?

Did Abel know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

Sara?

Did Sara know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

I am not sure why you continue to deny the clear teachings of scripture.

 

[loDebar]

They did not know Jehovah is Salvation? Why not? All the OT Prophets preached Him.

The Rabbi's today look for the same .

There has to be more. They did not know Jesus or that He would die, Look at the attitudes of the disciples, they did not know.

Those who were righteousness and were made aware of the Gospel from Jesus directly were saved

 

[TCassidy]

ALL scriptures are inspired by God, its just that the OT did not have fully disclosed to them all that was to come, doctrine of progressive revelation.

Once again you have to pay attention and read with understanding. Nobody has said that they had the complete full disclosure we have in the NT. What they bible says is that the OT saints knew the Savior, Jehovah is Salvation.

 

[loDebar]

Did Rahab know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

Did Abel know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

Did Sara know Jehovah is Salvation? Yes.

I am not sure why you continue to deny the clear teachings of scripture.

Knowing Jehovah is not salvation, The devils believe God and are not saved

Jas 2:19

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[loDebar]

Rom 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is specific,

 

[TCassidy]

The Rabbi's today look for the same .

No they don't. They rejected Jesus as the Christ, Jehovah is Salvation as the Messiah.

There has to be more.

More than Jesus?

They did not know Jesus or that He would die,

Yes, they did. Genesis 3:15.

Look at the attitudes of the disciples, they did not know.

They were just like you. They knew what the OT said, but didn't believe it was true.

 

[TCassidy]

Knowing Jehovah is not salvation,

So knowing (in the bible sense) Jehovah is Salvation - Jesus is Salvation - does not save. If Jesus does not save, who do you think does?

The devils believe God and are not saved

Yes, they are not saved. Nor can they be. They are in open rebellion against Jehovah is Savation.

confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus

Yes, salvation is when we confess, IE believe, that Jehovah is Salvation (Jesus is the Messiah).

 

[Yeshua1]

Once again you have to pay attention and read with understanding. Nobody has said that they had the complete full disclosure we have in the NT. What they bible says is that the OT saints knew the Savior, Jehovah is Salvation.

They knew that he was coming, but I do not know if they all knew that he was to be God in the flesh, as jewish thought was a godly man anointed by the Holy Spirit as David had been!

 

[loDebar]

So knowing (in the bible sense) Jehovah is Salvation - Jesus is Salvation - does not save. If Jesus does not save, who do you think does?

Yes, they are not saved. Nor can they be. They are in open rebellion against Jehovah is Savation.

Yes, salvation is when we confess, IE believe, that Jehovah is Salvation (Jesus is the Messiah).

Note: There is no verse that says they cant be saved. This is man's humanistic bias .


You cannot just rely on believing that there is a God and that that God is Jehovah. Repentance of sin and belief that Jesus is the only way of Salvation. Not belief in somebody else or a Messiah that will be revealed but the specific finished work of Jesus. This show that you are guilty , cant saved yourself, that you need saving and there is only one that is capable and willing to save,

Knowing God does not change and does not show favoritism the OT saints have to had believed on Jesus, same as me and this could only occur in Paradise between crucifixion and resurrection .

 

[TCassidy]

I do not know if they all knew that he was to be God in the flesh,

What part of Yahwah - YHWH - The Great I Am, the Great Self Existent One, The Uncaused First Cause, Yahwah is Salvation, Yahwah is Messiah, don't you understand?

 

[loDebar]

Looking for a Messiah , as the Rabbi's do now is the same as the OT Jews did, we both agree without Jesus they are not saved

 

[1689Dave]

Let me go ahead,
There is only one method of SALVATION,,
Act 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So how did the OT saints enter Heaven without a knowledge of Jesus, simple they DID NOT. Neither did they have a knowledge comparable to our of the Gospel So did God provide a different way to Salvation for them ? NO, It would be in conflict with scripture. We know some we "accounted for righteous" Is this salvation ? Is it the same as ours? NO.

Did God tell them all about the gospel so they could be saved as we are? NO.

So they could receive the Gospel , even though already considered righteous and physically dead? Easy

Jesus preached to them, So they could also believe on the finished work of Jesus. Remember there is no time in Paradise , either, so they just got there even though years apart.

Accounted for rigorousness in life and in accordance with hearing and believing what Jesus told them , equals salvation and entrance to Heaven,

You are conditioning salvation on knowledge and not grace. How about infants who die never hearing the gospel we hear today?

 

[loDebar]

What part of Yahwah - YHWH - The Great I Am, the Great Self Existent One, The Uncaused First Cause, Yahwah is Salvation, Yahwah is Messiah, don't you understand?

God provides salvation. (to His glory) the only access to God is through Jesus and the only way to Jesus is the Holy Spirit.