Nuts For Arminians To Crack

I am not sure that OUR will really matters. God did not stop and ask Lazarus if he WANTED to be raised from the dead, nor Saul if he WANTED to become an Apostle. God works all things first and foremost for HIS Glory (which is not unreasonable since God is the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Eternal, Creator ... after all.)

Fortunately for us, God is also Holy, so His Glory is also for our god (as his sheep, chosen, elect, Children). Ephesians 2:1-10 describes us starting out as dead. The dead don't get a vote, outside forces simply act on them and they passively cooperate ... which is why Ephesians 2 goes on to describe everything that God has done and lists nothing that the former corpse did.

I guess that I am saying that, with all due respect to Revmitchell, God drags spiritual corpses to the Son to make them alive, because that is the only way those corpses are going to get to the Son.

I believe that John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." applies to everyone that has an excuse for not following Jesus, and everyone that God has drawn. A rebuff for one and assurance for the other.

 

I just find it hard to understand why folks rebel so hard against the concept of God being the cause and source of our salvation!

 

First of all, spiritual death means relational seperation from God. Secondly, I was not arguing against God raising up dead people. I was talking about the fact that God does not coerce us/drag us. Those who come to Christ come willingly, because a work of Grace makes them willing. Thirdly, we are saved to love God, but love is not coerced. Coerced love is not love.

God does a work of Grace that convinces and convicts, awakens and softens, enlightens and illuminates, quickens and vilvifies. This results in us coming WILLINGLY and in a life of love for the one who first loved us

 

If you are referring to me, this a strawman and a complete misrepresentation of what I said. Saying that love is not coerced and saying that God is not the cause and source of our salvation are literally light years apart.

It seems like you folks never proceed beyond regeneration. I'm not talking arguing against regeneration, of a spiritually dead man being raised to life. I am talking about the fact that God does not save people against their wills. Rather, He makes them willing through a work of Grace that proceeds their faith.

And love is never coerced. And God would NOT be glorified in coercing people to love Him against their will. We love God freely because we have been made free to love BY HIS GRACE ALONE

 

Calvin- True, indeed, as to the kind of drawing, it is not violent, so as to compel men by external force; but still it is a powerful impulse of the Holy Spirit, which makes men willing who formerly were unwilling and reluctant.

C.H Spurgeon- For if we read our Bibles rightly, we understand that men, by nature, are not willing; for there is a text you are extremely fond of which we do not think belongs to you, and which says, "Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life." "No man can come unto me, except the Father which has sent me, draw him." If you would remember that, we think, even though the text does not teach it, you might at least have some respect for the doctrine; but it says, God's people shall be willing in the day of God's power; and if we read it as plain English people, we look from this text that there must be a work of his grace making men willing in the day of God's power.

 

Do you have scripture to support these opinions?

For example, where does it say that God does not coerce or drag us?
Moses didn’t want to confront Pharaoh, but God coerced him to go to Egypt.
Jonah didn’t want to go to Nineveh, but God coerced him.

 

We need to tread lightly, because @glad4mercy isn’t 100% wrong either. Salvation isn’t like a cosmic rape with God simply using his overwhelming power to take what he wants by force. I mean, in one sense it is (God is God) but salvation is not an act of violence or a military conquest. Speaking for myself, I would describe it as an irresistible seduction. God pursued me, wooed me and irresistibly seduced me ... until I completely yielded to him.

Which for a god-hating nihilist atheist gang member, was no small feat.

 

None of it insist God will not have mercy on anyone, some, or all.

If I think God is a jerk i'll believe he will show mercy on none.

If I think God is half a jerk i'll believe he will show mercy on some.

If I think God is the most kindness and most loving being I'll believe he will be merciful to all.

Jesus Christ answered this mystery for me.


There are folks here who are "shocked" and "surprised" God would save anyone.

Others are not surprised by his complete mercy at all.

 

Except for Esau ... no mercy for Esau. (And maybe the Son of Perdition ... calling someone the son of perdition suggests a lack of mercy).